I am a regular user of CMSMS. I carry out lot of Websites (thanks to this splendid CMS), for my customers. But... 85% of my customers wish Websites in several languages. In Europe we cannot make our websites only in English…
So now I need to duplicate the page in each language, FromBuilder page too. So much Time!
I am working with CMSMS since a long time and I upgrade : beta, 0, 1, 1.1,1.2,1.3,1.4... And frankly the new functionalities are peanuts compared to my needs of a real Multilingual CMSMS.
Please! I know that must come in version 2. But thank you to release version 2 soon or to put the Multilingual in version 1.5 or 1.6. We can not wait for a so important function!
You should not take this remark like a bad criticism. I want just that CMSMS implement the important things, to be able to continue to work with!
Have a nice week end and thank you for your work!
Multilingual does not have to wait!
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moorezilla
Re: Multilingual does not have to wait!
Multi-lingual capabilities are important, but they are available in the MLE fork. I know that you don't want to duplicate pages, but even when multi-lingual capabilities are in the core, I imagine you're still going to have duplicated information in one form or another. I just don't know how much time you'll be saved even when 2.0 rolls out with these capabilities. Most cms projects that offer multi-lingual capabilities still entail a good deal of duplication of effort; it's kind of the nature of the beast.
As for what's most important. 1.5 brings greater security to the admin area, and I would argue that securing a cms is always THE most important feature. Staying ahead of vulnerabilities and proactively hardening security may not be glitzy, but it's crucial and well-worth the development time.
Lastly, probably the best way to encourage faster development of pet aspects of an open source project is to either take a hand in the development or, short of this, to accompany requests with a monetary donation. Otherwise, it's a free-for-all concerning whose needs should take precedence. There's a big difference between, "you should do this now because I need it, " and "you should do this now because I need it AND here's some cash to get you moving."
Just my 2 pesos.
As for what's most important. 1.5 brings greater security to the admin area, and I would argue that securing a cms is always THE most important feature. Staying ahead of vulnerabilities and proactively hardening security may not be glitzy, but it's crucial and well-worth the development time.
Lastly, probably the best way to encourage faster development of pet aspects of an open source project is to either take a hand in the development or, short of this, to accompany requests with a monetary donation. Otherwise, it's a free-for-all concerning whose needs should take precedence. There's a big difference between, "you should do this now because I need it, " and "you should do this now because I need it AND here's some cash to get you moving."
Just my 2 pesos.
Re: Multilingual does not have to wait!
For me you do not speak like an open-source project man. I think Open Source cover the function that most of the people need. Pay Software make release only where and when they can make money.
I do not say : "you should do this now because I need it", but "you should do this sooner because it is important".
And especially because I am accustomed to use other CMS and that I see that it is the only point which is lacking with CMSMS.
Like I write do not criticize. I make just ramarque. I will like to use only CMSMS and no more other CMS like Joomla etc… and my opinion is CMSMS is very close to arriving there. I want just to give my input!
My opinion, if one can't express his opinion on the CMS, why this forum?
I do not say : "you should do this now because I need it", but "you should do this sooner because it is important".
And especially because I am accustomed to use other CMS and that I see that it is the only point which is lacking with CMSMS.
Like I write do not criticize. I make just ramarque. I will like to use only CMSMS and no more other CMS like Joomla etc… and my opinion is CMSMS is very close to arriving there. I want just to give my input!
My opinion, if one can't express his opinion on the CMS, why this forum?
Last edited by synergie on Fri Nov 14, 2008 3:47 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Multilingual does not have to wait!
I think moorezilla is speaking like a realistic man. ALL of the major developers for CMSMS have other jobs. Real Jobs... they can't sit down and make a better Multi-Lingual package because they are bored and you need it. That is where the monetary support comes in. If they can be paid to develop a solution that you need, then they can afford to take time away from their jobs as programmers and web developers and code a solution for you. If waiting for a developer to have free time to develop something is not fast enough for you then you need to sponsor the project. I am not sure where you get your "Open-Source Project Man" ideal characteristics... but let's be real. You make it sound as if you want the world but don't want to cough up a dime. That makes me think that you, sir, are not the real Open-Source Project Man. Reality and history shows that projects of this scale cannot survive without monetary backing.
Open-Source means the developers share code with each other to better the project better. Open-Source does NOT mean everything is free. This project has grown to the size it is because of the many donated hours of very generous people. But it also has grown to this size because of the thousands of dollars other members of the project have used to support the improvement of the core package and specific modules.
Multi-Lang support is important... but you are making it more important in your messages at this moment because it is something you need and you need it now. When someone suggests that you *gasp* support the project or find a solution yourself, you get hurt because you expected all of the developers to shift their efforts away from 1.5 and 2.0 so you can have multi-lang support. If the developers thought this was a more important issue they would have already addressed the issue. They feel that the Multi-Lang fork is enough to cover the needs of those that are looking for Multi-Lang.
You are welcome to express your opinion here, it is a forum after all. But your original post wasn't an opinion... it wasn't even a polite request. It came across as a demand. A very stout demand for a first time poster. Your opinions matter... but make sure they are opinions. Also, you are pulling a double standard. If you want the freedom to post your opinion because this is a forum you better be able to handle the opinions that are also going to be stated that don't support your demands (which is likely the majority). If you get to state your opinions... so do we
Open-Source means the developers share code with each other to better the project better. Open-Source does NOT mean everything is free. This project has grown to the size it is because of the many donated hours of very generous people. But it also has grown to this size because of the thousands of dollars other members of the project have used to support the improvement of the core package and specific modules.
Multi-Lang support is important... but you are making it more important in your messages at this moment because it is something you need and you need it now. When someone suggests that you *gasp* support the project or find a solution yourself, you get hurt because you expected all of the developers to shift their efforts away from 1.5 and 2.0 so you can have multi-lang support. If the developers thought this was a more important issue they would have already addressed the issue. They feel that the Multi-Lang fork is enough to cover the needs of those that are looking for Multi-Lang.
You are welcome to express your opinion here, it is a forum after all. But your original post wasn't an opinion... it wasn't even a polite request. It came across as a demand. A very stout demand for a first time poster. Your opinions matter... but make sure they are opinions. Also, you are pulling a double standard. If you want the freedom to post your opinion because this is a forum you better be able to handle the opinions that are also going to be stated that don't support your demands (which is likely the majority). If you get to state your opinions... so do we
If all else fails, use a bigger hammer.
M@rtijn wrote: This is a community. This means that we work together and have the same goal (a beautiful CMS), not that we try to put people down and make their (voluntary) job as difficult as can be.
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moorezilla
Re: Multilingual does not have to wait!
Whenever someone, or a group, feels that a particular aspect of CMS Made Simple should be given increased attention, they should absolutely suggest it. My only point is that people who make suggestions should be willing to get dirty, be willing to add something more than a suggestion to the project. I'm just suggesting that people who want things done in an open source project should be willing to:
1. Make their demands known, as you have done.
2. Help in the development. (Note: even if you are not a programmer, you can contribute by adding to documentation, answering forum posts, helping with translations, etc.)
2a. Contribute money if they can't help in the development, or if they would like to expedite certain developments.
I'm just suggesting that people can make CMS Made Simple better by contributing suggestions AND contributing either actual work OR money. It's really not enough to say something like, you should do this if you want to be a viable project, or if you want to compete with other projects that do x or y or z. If you want something done in an open source project, I think you have to be realistic about what YOU can contribute. If you want it done, do it (it is open source after all), or be willing to encourage others to do it by making a solid contribution to the project.
I'm not picking on anyone. This is not an ad hominem attack. It's just the reality of an open source project as I see it.
1. Make their demands known, as you have done.
2. Help in the development. (Note: even if you are not a programmer, you can contribute by adding to documentation, answering forum posts, helping with translations, etc.)
2a. Contribute money if they can't help in the development, or if they would like to expedite certain developments.
I'm just suggesting that people can make CMS Made Simple better by contributing suggestions AND contributing either actual work OR money. It's really not enough to say something like, you should do this if you want to be a viable project, or if you want to compete with other projects that do x or y or z. If you want something done in an open source project, I think you have to be realistic about what YOU can contribute. If you want it done, do it (it is open source after all), or be willing to encourage others to do it by making a solid contribution to the project.
I'm not picking on anyone. This is not an ad hominem attack. It's just the reality of an open source project as I see it.
Last edited by moorezilla on Fri Nov 14, 2008 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Multilingual does not have to wait!
synergie :
you are absolutely right, this functionality is IMHO very needed thing in CMSMS and I'm waiting for it very long too.
tyman00 & moorezilla :
please stop talking about the money all the time. If it's not so important feature for you, just let it be. Why are you fighting against Synergie ? This forum is here to get the ideas and demands from CMSMS users. Synergie just expressed his ideas and that's it. Why are you acting like an "open-source" gurus? Open source is meant to be open, so please don't close it down to money.
and finally tyman00:
You said "it wasn't even a polite request" - what?? If Synergie used words like "please" and "Have a nice week end and thank you for your work" it means it is not a polite request? Excuse me. And to be rude at somebody just because he is a "first time poster" is OK for you? What if Synergie works with CMSMS longer than you do?
I agree with Synergie - please guys.... I think there is more people waiting for multilingual than you think. So please - if you are thinking about what feature to code now, think about multiling. And I hope this demand will be polite for Mr.Tyman00.
I really appreciate the work you are putting into CMSMS. Have a nice time.
Enriqe
you are absolutely right, this functionality is IMHO very needed thing in CMSMS and I'm waiting for it very long too.
tyman00 & moorezilla :
please stop talking about the money all the time. If it's not so important feature for you, just let it be. Why are you fighting against Synergie ? This forum is here to get the ideas and demands from CMSMS users. Synergie just expressed his ideas and that's it. Why are you acting like an "open-source" gurus? Open source is meant to be open, so please don't close it down to money.
and finally tyman00:
You said "it wasn't even a polite request" - what?? If Synergie used words like "please" and "Have a nice week end and thank you for your work" it means it is not a polite request? Excuse me. And to be rude at somebody just because he is a "first time poster" is OK for you? What if Synergie works with CMSMS longer than you do?
I agree with Synergie - please guys.... I think there is more people waiting for multilingual than you think. So please - if you are thinking about what feature to code now, think about multiling. And I hope this demand will be polite for Mr.Tyman00.
I really appreciate the work you are putting into CMSMS. Have a nice time.
Enriqe
Last edited by enriqe on Sat Nov 22, 2008 4:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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calguy1000
- Support Guru
- Posts: 8169
- Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:44 pm
- Location: Fernie British Columbia, Canada
Re: Multilingual does not have to wait!
This conversation is moot anyways.
After 1.5 comes out we'll be focussing on 2.0 development for a good long while. I don't forsee another 1.x release (other than emergency bugfixes or security problems) at least until 2.0 comes out.
Too much effort has gone into 2.0 to just drop it, and Ted needs help, he can't do it all on his own.
After 1.5 comes out we'll be focussing on 2.0 development for a good long while. I don't forsee another 1.x release (other than emergency bugfixes or security problems) at least until 2.0 comes out.
Too much effort has gone into 2.0 to just drop it, and Ted needs help, he can't do it all on his own.
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Re: Multilingual does not have to wait!
I just typed a huge response but decided I would spare you all from my babbling 
I guess we see things differently then and I will leave it at that after this. If I want something done I try to take a proactive approach. Since I can't program... I find someone that can and I support the project. Both monetarily and by providing support. Open Source does not mean free. I am no OS guru... far from it. But I do know that no where in the description of OS does it say free. Just because the majority of OS apps are free or low cost does not automatically mean that is part of the description. I say support the project and "talk about money" because it get's things done faster and probably better than waiting weeks, months and years for it to happen. enriqe it's not all about money, you are correct. But face it money talks. God forbid someone suggest that you support the project with donations, programming, technical support, translations or writing documentation instead of leeching off of it.
He may have said "Please" and "Thank You" but that still does not nullify the fact that he slammed and insulted the features that many of the devs have implemented and called them peanuts. Multi-lang is important, but used by only a few. But those features improved the installation process, performance and usability of the core. Something EVERYONE uses when they install CMSMS.
Because I have not used it... what is wrong with the MLE fork? Those issues should be brought up in that forum instead of asking the developers to change the priority of making the Core run better.
So I don't pile on, I will leave it at this.
I guess we see things differently then and I will leave it at that after this. If I want something done I try to take a proactive approach. Since I can't program... I find someone that can and I support the project. Both monetarily and by providing support. Open Source does not mean free. I am no OS guru... far from it. But I do know that no where in the description of OS does it say free. Just because the majority of OS apps are free or low cost does not automatically mean that is part of the description. I say support the project and "talk about money" because it get's things done faster and probably better than waiting weeks, months and years for it to happen. enriqe it's not all about money, you are correct. But face it money talks. God forbid someone suggest that you support the project with donations, programming, technical support, translations or writing documentation instead of leeching off of it.
He may have said "Please" and "Thank You" but that still does not nullify the fact that he slammed and insulted the features that many of the devs have implemented and called them peanuts. Multi-lang is important, but used by only a few. But those features improved the installation process, performance and usability of the core. Something EVERYONE uses when they install CMSMS.
Because I have not used it... what is wrong with the MLE fork? Those issues should be brought up in that forum instead of asking the developers to change the priority of making the Core run better.
So I don't pile on, I will leave it at this.
If all else fails, use a bigger hammer.
M@rtijn wrote: This is a community. This means that we work together and have the same goal (a beautiful CMS), not that we try to put people down and make their (voluntary) job as difficult as can be.
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Pierre M.
Re: Multilingual does not have to wait!
Hello all,
I'm in the Support Team, not in the DevTeam. The CMSms product is the DevTeam's baby. I'm not the parent but some baby sitter. I can't decide, only the parents can decide for their child. But in FLOSS volunteers can join the parenthood (join the DevTeam by submitting code patches) or give a gift to the parents to use for the baby (sponsoring).
I'm European and I agree about the need of multilang. But if I really needed it now I would try to make some incentive about it for the DevTeam ; for example :
-(money) I post a syndicate sponsoring offer in the "commercial" forum.
-(work) Or I can give 2.0-svn a try today and report successes, bugs, suggestions, patches, opinions to help its release.
Today, my workaround is a language hierarchy with regular CMSms : /fr /en /es /ru /de /it...
Thanks for this discussion and all opinions even if "This conversation is moot anyways".
DevTeam, have fun making 2.0
Pierre
I think FLOSS covers the feature set that coders code. Realitysynergie wrote: I think Open Source cover the function that most of the people need.
I'm in the Support Team, not in the DevTeam. The CMSms product is the DevTeam's baby. I'm not the parent but some baby sitter. I can't decide, only the parents can decide for their child. But in FLOSS volunteers can join the parenthood (join the DevTeam by submitting code patches) or give a gift to the parents to use for the baby (sponsoring).
I'm European and I agree about the need of multilang. But if I really needed it now I would try to make some incentive about it for the DevTeam ; for example :
-(money) I post a syndicate sponsoring offer in the "commercial" forum.
-(work) Or I can give 2.0-svn a try today and report successes, bugs, suggestions, patches, opinions to help its release.
Today, my workaround is a language hierarchy with regular CMSms : /fr /en /es /ru /de /it...
Thanks for this discussion and all opinions even if "This conversation is moot anyways".
DevTeam, have fun making 2.0
Pierre
Re: Multilingual does not have to wait!
Nice analogy!Pierre M. wrote:
I'm in the Support Team, not in the DevTeam. The CMSms product is the DevTeam's baby. I'm not the parent but some baby sitter. I can't decide, only the parents can decide for their child. But in FLOSS volunteers can join the parenthood (join the DevTeam by submitting code patches) or give a gift to the parents to use for the baby (sponsoring).
If all else fails, use a bigger hammer.
M@rtijn wrote: This is a community. This means that we work together and have the same goal (a beautiful CMS), not that we try to put people down and make their (voluntary) job as difficult as can be.
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moorezilla
Re: Multilingual does not have to wait!
Enriqe, you seem to have missed points 1 and 2, neither of which mention money. Only 2a mentions money as an alternative method for helping the project. Why does the contribution of money offend your sensibilities so much any way?please stop talking about the money all the time. If it's not so important feature for you, just let it be. Why are you fighting against Synergie ? This forum is here to get the ideas and demands from CMSMS users. Synergie just expressed his ideas and that's it. Why are you acting like an "open-source" gurus? Open source is meant to be open, so please don't close it down to money.
No one's fighting against Synergie. People OFFERED SYNERGIE SUGGESTIONS FOR HOW TO POTENTIALLY SPEED UP THE DEVELOPMENT ON A FEATURE! How on earth is that an attack?
As for acting like a guru, if the dissemination of common sense makes one a guru, thanks for the compliment!
