So I was having a conversation with another developer today. telling them how great CMSms is. And while they went to download it, they were lost.
http://dev.cmsmadesimple.org/frs/?group_id=6
Has anyone thought about cleaning up the download page? Yes all those versions are needed I am sure. but I would bet 90% of people would need the base, or full tar file.
So I suggest, making it very clean and clear, click here to download base. click here to download full. click here to download other languages and files.
Looks like we have done that in the past.
http://www.cmsmadesimple.org/downloads
But the large button on the home, "download now" takes the user to the full file list page. Very hard to use for a newbie CMSms user.
just my two cents as a front end usability designer.
CMSms site sugestion
Re: CMSms site sugestion
I think that's a great idea. A lot of sites at least offer an explanation of what each download package is, along with "if you are a new user, this is the package for you", or "if you want only the basics, this package is for you", suggestions.
-
calguy1000
- Support Guru
- Posts: 8169
- Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:44 pm
Re: CMSms site sugestion
factor1:
You are hereby drafted to create the appropriate 30 or so links manually, so that there is a nice friendly interface and good documentation for each and every release. I can setup the account and give you the appropriate access.
the reason we don't do it now is because now we're releasing 30 to 40 files instead of 3 to 4.
It's just too much headache.
I think you just volunteered yourself.
You are hereby drafted to create the appropriate 30 or so links manually, so that there is a nice friendly interface and good documentation for each and every release. I can setup the account and give you the appropriate access.
the reason we don't do it now is because now we're releasing 30 to 40 files instead of 3 to 4.
It's just too much headache.
I think you just volunteered yourself.
Follow me on twitter
Please post system information from "Extensions >> System Information" (there is a bbcode option) on all posts asking for assistance.
--------------------
If you can't bother explaining your problem well, you shouldn't expect much in the way of assistance.
Please post system information from "Extensions >> System Information" (there is a bbcode option) on all posts asking for assistance.
--------------------
If you can't bother explaining your problem well, you shouldn't expect much in the way of assistance.
Re: CMSms site sugestion
Working on it...
Can I suggest that, rather than making each individual language available as a separate download file, we bundle all the languages together (excepting English), and call it the CMSMS Language Pack? If you only want 3 languages, you download and extract the language pack, and then use the 3 languages you need. If you want them all, you can use them all. This would greatly reduce the number of available download files, and the apparent complexity of the downloads page...
Can I suggest that, rather than making each individual language available as a separate download file, we bundle all the languages together (excepting English), and call it the CMSMS Language Pack? If you only want 3 languages, you download and extract the language pack, and then use the 3 languages you need. If you want them all, you can use them all. This would greatly reduce the number of available download files, and the apparent complexity of the downloads page...
-
calguy1000
- Support Guru
- Posts: 8169
- Joined: Tue Oct 19, 2004 6:44 pm
Re: CMSms site sugestion
No, we can't package all the seperate languages into one package for a few reasons.
a) some people seem to have problems with .tar.gz files already... strange, if they are web professionals if they don't know what a .tar.gz file or a .tgz file is, how can they call themselves an internet professional.. and we definitely aren't gonna put out twice the number of files just because 'some people can't figure it out'.
b) we filled a request/solved a bug by putting them into separate language packs. Why should somebody need to download the Chinese language pack if they don't need it. An why should we go backwards?
c) Somebody would ask 'where is the xxxx language pack' no matter what we did.
d) this package is not for noobs, it's for experienced professionals that should know how to download a .tar.gz file or to read a long page.
We've picked the best solution we can think of... and numerous hours have gone into writing scripts, managing the installer, testing, and debugging this process. I won't spend more hours creating 30 to 40 manual links in a page for every single release, or asking people to test them, or even adjusting the scripts once again and generating a new release just for that. and I don't think you can commit to that either
a) some people seem to have problems with .tar.gz files already... strange, if they are web professionals if they don't know what a .tar.gz file or a .tgz file is, how can they call themselves an internet professional.. and we definitely aren't gonna put out twice the number of files just because 'some people can't figure it out'.
b) we filled a request/solved a bug by putting them into separate language packs. Why should somebody need to download the Chinese language pack if they don't need it. An why should we go backwards?
c) Somebody would ask 'where is the xxxx language pack' no matter what we did.
d) this package is not for noobs, it's for experienced professionals that should know how to download a .tar.gz file or to read a long page.
We've picked the best solution we can think of... and numerous hours have gone into writing scripts, managing the installer, testing, and debugging this process. I won't spend more hours creating 30 to 40 manual links in a page for every single release, or asking people to test them, or even adjusting the scripts once again and generating a new release just for that. and I don't think you can commit to that either
Follow me on twitter
Please post system information from "Extensions >> System Information" (there is a bbcode option) on all posts asking for assistance.
--------------------
If you can't bother explaining your problem well, you shouldn't expect much in the way of assistance.
Please post system information from "Extensions >> System Information" (there is a bbcode option) on all posts asking for assistance.
--------------------
If you can't bother explaining your problem well, you shouldn't expect much in the way of assistance.
Re: CMSms site sugestion
Who is talking about putting out twice the number of files? I'm talking about putting out less files. Put out one instead of 35. A web professional should be able to a) handle TAR.GZ and b) extract just the languages he/she needs. Why kill yourself cutting all the extra releases?a) some people seem to have problems with .tar.gz files already... strange, if they are web professionals if they don't know what a .tar.gz file or a .tgz file is, how can they call themselves an internet professional.. and we definitely aren't gonna put out twice the number of files just because 'some people can't figure it out'.
As far as I'm concerned, it wouldn't be going backwards. It would be going back to the way we used to do it before we screwed it up. Sometimes going "backwards" is better than staying with a sub-optimal status quo.An why should we go backwards?
I would suggest changing the first part of the Downloads page text to something like the attachment. (This is JUST a rough sketch, not my final proposal, so please don't get hung up on wording, formatting, etc.) If we're not going to roll the languages back into one complete package, then drop the last paragraph.
There are ways to get around manually creating the links with each release.
Just my 2 cents...
- Attachments
-
[The extension pdf has been deactivated and can no longer be displayed.]
Re: CMSms site sugestion
I think it's fine the way it is at the moment, but how about making a torrent file? This way people click on the torrent download and then they get to pick what to download.
Re: CMSms site sugestion
Guess nobody really understand what it takes to set that page up, it's not like on a normal web site, oh I want to let them DL this so I'll just throw a link here...
From my understanding this is done with a script that gathers all the relevant folders/files from the SVN repository and takes out all the SVN folders/files and assembles them into packages, stored in another place, to be sent to this page as links for you to download...
To try and change the script to add text explanations as to what is being offered and how to deal with it after DL is beyond the scope of the script, and it's not needed as most times when a new ver. is posted about in the main cmsms site or here on the forum there is some verbiage about what it is and what the main diff. is and if you should get the full package, lang. files, etc. etc....
I'm sorry if some have no idea what to do with a tar file, as I didn't when I first encountered one, but I found that I had a program already installed to handle it, although windows wanted to send me out to the internet to find how to deal with it, 7Zip turned out to handle them rather well and it is free...
guess that adds up to my 3cents worth...
From my understanding this is done with a script that gathers all the relevant folders/files from the SVN repository and takes out all the SVN folders/files and assembles them into packages, stored in another place, to be sent to this page as links for you to download...
To try and change the script to add text explanations as to what is being offered and how to deal with it after DL is beyond the scope of the script, and it's not needed as most times when a new ver. is posted about in the main cmsms site or here on the forum there is some verbiage about what it is and what the main diff. is and if you should get the full package, lang. files, etc. etc....
I'm sorry if some have no idea what to do with a tar file, as I didn't when I first encountered one, but I found that I had a program already installed to handle it, although windows wanted to send me out to the internet to find how to deal with it, 7Zip turned out to handle them rather well and it is free...
guess that adds up to my 3cents worth...
Re: CMSms site sugestion
Thanks for the explanation, Mark. I didn't realize all of that was done automatically.
How do other CMSs handle this, then? Obviously there are ways to make the download more streamlined and intuitive, which is ultimately what the OP was suggesting.
http://typo3.org/download/packages/
http://wordpress.org/download/
http://www.xoops.org/modules/core/
http://www.joomla.org/download.html
(yes, I understand that we're not trying to "be" all of the above, but that doesn't mean we can't learn from things they do well)
How do other CMSs handle this, then? Obviously there are ways to make the download more streamlined and intuitive, which is ultimately what the OP was suggesting.
http://typo3.org/download/packages/
http://wordpress.org/download/
http://www.xoops.org/modules/core/
http://www.joomla.org/download.html
(yes, I understand that we're not trying to "be" all of the above, but that doesn't mean we can't learn from things they do well)
Re: CMSms site sugestion
Okay got it.
So here is my next thought.
1. Since that page is auto generated, and yes we do need all of these available to some users, lets leave it alone.
2. create more of a font end view that we could manually control the link, look, and language, to be prettier, and more clear on which is the main download. and a second link "for other file versions and languages" to take them to the current page.
I think wordpress is a great example of clear and to the point. Joomla is also a good example.
fyi. did you guys hear that dropal hired mark boulton (well known, amazing interaction designer from the UK) to redesign their site. I expect drupal to have the best open source CMS site to date in a few month. http://www.markboulton.co.uk/journal/comments/drupalorg/
I know I was stirring the pot when I mentioned this. I am more of a front end designer, so this stuff matters to me. And my second point to my friend originally was that CMS is one of the easiest CMSs out there to get a front end coder started with. So I think if the site could appeal to a front end designer / first time user more that would be cool.
So here is my next thought.
1. Since that page is auto generated, and yes we do need all of these available to some users, lets leave it alone.
2. create more of a font end view that we could manually control the link, look, and language, to be prettier, and more clear on which is the main download. and a second link "for other file versions and languages" to take them to the current page.
I think wordpress is a great example of clear and to the point. Joomla is also a good example.
fyi. did you guys hear that dropal hired mark boulton (well known, amazing interaction designer from the UK) to redesign their site. I expect drupal to have the best open source CMS site to date in a few month. http://www.markboulton.co.uk/journal/comments/drupalorg/
I know I was stirring the pot when I mentioned this. I am more of a front end designer, so this stuff matters to me. And my second point to my friend originally was that CMS is one of the easiest CMSs out there to get a front end coder started with. So I think if the site could appeal to a front end designer / first time user more that would be cool.
Re: CMSms site sugestion
The Downloads page is definitely good, but IMHO it should have links directly to the latest Full and Base versions, and to the Checksums for each. Instead, it just links to the repository, which has so many version links my eyes go buggy, and the visitor has to choose from that list. (Not that having all of those links is bad - I agree that they each serve a purpose - but it can be a bit overwhelming for someone who isn't prepared for it...)
-
stopsatgreen
- Power Poster
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:24 am
Re: CMSms site sugestion
Maybe the download box on the homepage should have an extra link: "Which version do I need?", or something like that.
Re: CMSms site sugestion
The CMS Made Simple core is distributed in 2 versions. The base version consists of just the English language files, while the full version has all of the language packs included. If you're upgrading from a version previous to 1.4, then you should download the full package. New installs can just use the base package and download the translations needed.
We include translation files for over 20 languages. Download the translation files required and include them with your base download before transferring to your web host.
-
stopsatgreen
- Power Poster
- Posts: 322
- Joined: Sat Feb 04, 2006 1:24 am
Re: CMSms site sugestion
?
I know it says that on the downloads page, but the link on the homepage just takes you to a list of files with no explanation of what you should download.
I know it says that on the downloads page, but the link on the homepage just takes you to a list of files with no explanation of what you should download.
