CMSMS v1.2 is very disappointing

[cnymike]

I have been using CMSMS for nearly two years. Each incremental upgrade has been generally a trouble-free experience. v1.2 however has changed all that. there are so many issues that I am experiencing with v1.2 that it has made my workload significantly greater than before I upgraded since so many of my clients using 1.2 are now unable to upload files with correct file permissions, and in some cases are unable to upload files at all due to a fatal error that I have reported in another thread http://forum.cmsmadesimple.org/index.php/topic,16811.0.html.

Add in the problems with WYSIWYG changing code to HTML entities, changes to FileManager interface (an "OK" button? what is that all about? How about a "Send it to server" button instead)

It's been a nightmare and I apologize for venting, but it's very frustrating.

And especially when you consider all the "new" people who may be evaluating CMSMS  because of the recent "good" showing in Packt’s Overall 2007 Open Source CMS Award, well suffice to say, they are experiencing a CMSMS with lots of problems that did not exist in the prior version.

So is this taking a step back so we can take two steps forward? I certainly hope so. For now, I am extremely frustrated.

Michael

[calguy1000]

1.2 had a good beta testing cycle, well announced and well tested (thank you everybody)..... were you on it? Did you contribute? if not, and you have 'so many issues'.... or you didn't test and/or backup before upgrading, then..... well, it's your fault. I personally have installed 1.2 freshly numerous times and have had no dificultiy.

Many valued contributors underwent numerous upgrade and fresh install tests, read the announcements forum, there are lots of posts in there.  Testing was performed, but maybe not with your specific circumstances.

Your post is not contributing, it hurts the product.  the only way to make a better product is to contribute.  Have you done that?  If not, if you're just a 'user'.... then IMHO you have no right to complain like that.

[cnymike]

N0, I did not beta test. Maybe I should have and maybe I will in the future.

I do contribute. I've sent the project money, maybe not as much as some but more than others. I spend hours tracking down answers to issues that I discover. I file bug reports. I have read hundreds, if not thousands of posts in these forums trying to make sense of difficult to understand concepts and try to figure out how to use modules that have scant documentation and the documentation that does exist probably makes perfect sense to the developer, but to the typical user,  not so much.

I methodically "beta test" on my own. I bring issues to the forums and post accordingly.

Is not a forum a place for discussion and expression of opinions? Or am I wrong about that?

don't get me wrong, I think CMSMS is a great platform. But it is not without it's problems. I realize that the developers worked very hard on this over the years and your toils are more than likely a thankless job. I do appreciate the fact that this platform is "free" and an open-source project.. I appreciate all the hard work and time that you and the other developers put into this project.

I also like to get work done and when I have to spend more time troubleshooting than getting work done, it frustrates me.

Believe it or not, if I -could- contribute in some meaningful way to further this project more than I do, I would. I'm not a coder though and never will be, so I can't help in fixing problems. I can only report them.

[calguy1000]

I appreciate that you have contributed monetarily, it really does help.  and I apologize if I was gruff (actually I was)... but we have many users here that complain when they have spent little to no time testing before they try to develop or upgrade a 'production site' and most times under a deadline.

Many of the developers here (and I am perhaps currently the exception) don't develop many websites, they put their effort in for the public good and for a little bit of recognition.  We spend many hours developing and debugging this product, and it's addon (not officially supported) modules.

Yes, CMS is not without its problems every product has it's shortfalls (if you find the perfect product, we'd all adopt it instantaneously, and abandon this one). 

I also like to get work done and when I have to spend more time troubleshooting than getting work done, it frustrates me too. when I have to spend too much time debugging issues that 'should be simple', when I should be getting stuff done.

However, we do make efforts to try to beta test, we do make efforts to ensure the quality of the code, we do make efforts to eliminate problems it doesn't always work that way though.

Surprisingly enough, 1.2 is one of the releases I thought was the most trouble free (except for a single issue with users that didn't have 'modify site preference' permission).

[Jermooski]

I can't believe people actually complain about this or any other open source project.  I work with a php dev team on lots of custom projects, and CMSMS is nice.  A big thanks to all the developers on this project!  I pump you guys up here in the office.

As far as relying on pre-packaged code to run your business... I think it was Stevie Wonder that sang..."When you believe in code that you dont understand, Then you suffer, Superstition aint the way..."  jk, just a joke, relax, and open php book.

Gigawabamin minawa... (Check ya later.)     

[cnymike]

What?

You can't believe that people "complain about this or any other open source project" ? Seriously?
Your comment that "relying on pre-packaged code to run your business" is in essence "superstition" made me chuckle. I guess all the companies that rely on Linux are making a big mistake then too.

Actually if I were to take your comment at face  value, then that would lead me to ask, what is  the point of open-source projects at all?

If open-source projects are not intended to be used in real-world applications, then what's the point of spending all the time developing them, testing them, making websites and forums about them?

If it's not ultimately supposed to be used for real business applications why bother with them at all?

Do you think that open-source projects should just be used for playing around with but that when it comes time to deploy a "real" content managed website that a user should turn to a commercial solution?

[Jermooski]

I never wrote that Open Source should not be used for Business Solutions.  Of course it should, we use many blogs, wikis, version trackers, task trackers, and some CMS.  Some of the these are free or have a small licensing fee. 

Try going to a custom development shop, tell them you want multiple developers to build an app from scratch, to match CMSMS.    If you could afford the custom dev, then you can complain all you want and they will fix it, just the way you like.         

CMSMS is very good.
 

[styson]

Why is cnymike being chastised for reporting his experiences with version 1.2?  And what makes his words less important than someone who "contributes".  Did you stop and think that providing this feedback is his way of contributing?  Last time I checked, contributing to an OS project is doing what you can when you can.  You make alot of assumptions regarding his contributions or lack there of.    This feedback might be his only option.  And kicking his teeth in regading his upgrade techniques again solves nothing.  Try constructive criticism, not just critisism it works much better.  The same goes both ways cnymike. 

If CMSms 1.2 is unstable in his environment shouldn't we be asking the details of his deployments so bugs can be identified and fixed or maybe cnymike has a configuration issue that is causing the problems. 

cnymike, if you haven't already, can you provide the details of your deployments.

And for those who care, I use vmware virtual machine to test client upgrades and I use the database backup module to backup cmsms since my sites are hosted.

[cnymike]

My sites are on a shared server

I'm using CMSMS 1.2

FreeBSD 6.2-RELEASE-p1
PHP Version 5.2.4
Apache/2.2.4

What else would be helpful to know?

[tsw]

Ways you can help dev team to make cmsms better

1) test, if you find bugs you can try fixing them, or report them in tracker
- if you found a fix make a patch and submit it for review
- if you found a fix (not in the code) write something usefull for others in the forum or the wiki

2) test more

3) use

And for bug reporting, there are good and bad bugreports, examples provided below

bad bug report)
This doesnt work, please do something

good bug report)
I tested svn version 12345 and found that if you click on the save button it doesn't do anything on edituser page.
Steps to reproduce
- login to admin
- go to edituser (any user is ok)
- change something
- click save

I'm running php1, apache3, on linux, mod_security is enabled.


Even better bug report (this is the heaven of developer)
same as above but with something like

This problem seems to be in file saveedituser.php on line 456 where method $user->set('Name', $NewName); is called before $NewName is extracted from form values, suggested fix: move line 456 two lines down.


(those reports are made up)

And what goes to wysiwygs, most of the errors from wysiwygs should be reported directly to upstream. we just use the wysiwyg someone else has created...

[cnymike]

And what goes to wysiwygs, most of the errors from wysiwygs should be reported directly to upstream. we just use the wysiwyg someone else has created...

So who exactly is that? where would I submit a WYSIWYG issue?

[calguy1000]

btw, some others have reported some issues on PHP 5.2.x  I currently do not have a php 5.2.x, so there may be some issues there.  It would be nice to have an environment to be able to test things in.

[cnymike]

Well for Mac there is MAMP, for Windows and Linux there is XAMPP

Check out http://www.apachefriends.org/en/xampp.html

I'm not sure which dists have php5.2 but surely one of them does.

[calguy1000]

I have a dedicated FC6 server that I run my test stuff on at home, and a dedicated kubuntu feisty server that I run stuff on at the office....  neither of them offer 5.2.4..... my ubuntu feisty server at work offers 5.2.1 (that's close).

[calguy1000]

and, btw.... it's remarkably stable running CMS.