Licencing questions again! Help!

[sarah_h]

Hi All, Further to my last questions about the removal of CMS MS links etc. I'd like to know a bit more, more particularly how I can use CMS MS as a reseller i.e. we're thinking of using thi package to produce sites for our clients so each site would be different with the clients own branding etc. So it looks like the reselling option is best but is this something that some of you use? What do those of you who produce sites for many other clients using CMS MS do? Do you resell? What option should I use?

Hope someone can clarify this as we really do want to do the right thing!

Sarah

[Ted]

Basically, you have the option of changing the admin theme to whatever you'd like.  You're not really supposed to remove any copyright notices, but that's generally for the code itself, not the output.  Some people make a small donation for each site they do, some people don't.

In other words, you can pretty much do whatever you want as long as it doesn't involve pretending that the code itself is yours or charging for the actual system (though, you can charge as much as you want for services centered around the system, including installation).

[sarah_h]

Thanks Ted but don't I need a commercial licence to produce several sites for my clients?

[Ted]

Nope.  Though if you'd like me to come up with one for you, I can. 

[Dee]

That's one of the nicest things about a GPL'd open source (web)application: no need for a commercial licence.
In short (if I'm right, please someone correct me if I'm wrong): you cannot "sell" or resell any sites based on CMSMS, they should always be licensed at no charge to all third parties under the terms of the GPL license. Also any changes/improvements to the CMSMS core should be published/returned to the community under the same terms.

What you can do however is charge your clients for installing, hosting and maintaining the site, design work/changes, etc.

See this for more information on free software licences: http://www.fsf.org/licensing/licenses/index_html
And this for the full GPL license text: http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl.html

[sarah_h]

Ok, so I don't need to buy a commercial licence but I would need to remove the copyright links and use the clients logo's etc. so that it looks like our CMS i.e. no links to CMS MS, that sounds pretty bad but that's what we need, we've been looking for a CMS system that we can build all our customers sites around, so now where do we stand?? I'm sorry for all these questions but I want to do this properly.

Sarah

p.s. Ted you said you'd come up with a licence for us, I'd be very happy if you could do this.

[Ted]

Well, I was only half kidding about that.  While I'd love to come up with a license for this situation, I'm not in the position at the moment to hire a copyright attorney to help me figure it out.  Yes, I'm turning down money...  isn't that sad? 

Based on what I know, there is no issue for 2 reasons.

1. You're not changing the copyrights in the code files themselves.  You're going to be making a modification to the administration panel theme, not even to the copyright notices in the php code of the core itself  Local modifications are covered by the GPL.

2. You're not distributing.  I don't see building client sites one by one and setting them up as distribution.  Now, if you took CMSMS, changed every copyright notice in the code and then started selling it as your own software without any services, then we'd have an issue.

Take a look at the FAQ for the license.  http://www.gnu.org/licenses/gpl-faq.html

At some point down the line, I might be able to hire a lawyer to help draft up a commercial license.  But doing so right now would kill me financially.

Hope that helps.

[accountzcom]

Ok, so I don't need to buy a commercial licence but I would need to remove the copyright links and use the clients logo's etc. so that it looks like our CMS i.e. no links to CMS MS, that sounds pretty bad

Wow Sarah. This is unbelievable. You want to pass off someone elses work as your own. You also want them to agree to give you some kind of licence to do it. And they reply that, "well, why the hell not"! and you still persist in trying to get some kind of permission. This is unforgivable. It is NOT your work. Why do you have a problem in letting your client know it's not your work? Can you not see it is dishonest (even if the copyright holder says otherwise).

[Dee]

Some clients just don't want the "powered by CMSMS" link on their front-end. When adapting CMSMS for a perticular site, the CMSMS logo usually gets replaced by the clients logo and an admin theme is created which uses the client logo instead of the CMSMS one.

As for the bit "so that it looks like our CMS", I agree this sounds like imposing it were your own, which wouldn't be neat. Personally I also don't see any need or reason for that. I always tell my clients I use this great open-source CMS and leave the "powered by CMSMS" link in the back-end; it's definately not a shame to (tell your client you) use collaborative work besides your own...

[iNSiPiD]

sarah h, I am very much in the same business as you. I build sites, host them and charge for these and other services.

I also use CMS Made SImple to easily achieve the goal of building the sites and allowng the clients to maintain them.

I would, however, never have the unmitigated gall to suggest that the CMS itself is anything other than someone else's work. In fact, I tell my clients exactly what they're getting and even help them with the upgrade path for future proofing their sites for free.

Removing the "Powered by CMSMS" logo is fine. Most clients would refuse it. Customising the admin is also fine. I have done it many times at the client's request.

But to rebadge the CMS under a different name and market it as your own is nothing less than thievery.

Take this company for example - http://www.ews.com.au - who have even gone to the extent of changing the page generation comment code in their pages!

And I'm ashamed to say it's by a fellow Aussie no less.

[sarah_h]

Thanks for all you're comments. It was never my intention to design sites for clients stating that the CMS was written by ourselves although reading my previous posts again I can see that this may have been implied. My idea was like yours insipid, to remove the Powered by logo and use our own graphics etc. in the admin. So we would never re-badge and make it our own and certainly would never consider changing comments in the code etc. I would like to apologise hovever, especially to Ted and the other writers if my posts have made it look like that, I can see it may have made me look like a cheat. CMS MS is a superb system and although I've not yet completed my first site with this software I must say that it's the best I've used and I will be contributing for it's use.

I hope I've made my position clear.

Sarah

[jce76350]

Hi,

For informations
see  http://www.fckeditor.net/license/commercial/

[KoalaBlue]

Hey iNSiPiD

Take this company for example - http://www.ews.com.au - who have even gone to the extent of changing the page generation comment code in their pages!

You scared them off - site's no longer working - 'currently under construction'

[Ted]

Yeah, iNSIPID is quite the bulldog when it comes to licensing.  I knew we kept him around for a reason.