What do we think about MicroTiny in CMSMS 2?

[frankmanl]

I am wondering if I'm the only one who is not too happy about MicroTiny being the only WYSIWYG editor in CMSMS 2.
I do understand why functionality in MicroTiny is restricted (e.g. it is absurd to give editors the opportunity to make their content purple when purple is no part of the design), but I miss several imho legitimate functionalities that TinyMCE (the source for MicroTiny) does supply.
Of course I don't mean any disrespect for the developers, but I feel seriously handicapted by being forced to use MicroTiny in stead of TinyMCE (which can easily be adjusted with just some clicks and settings, so the editor has all -and no more- options as intended) and in fact it is a reason not to upgrade several websites.

I've also been browsing this forum about this and want to mention (not in any special order):
• essential options like source code are only available from a pull down menu in stead of a simple button, which means a more complex interface for the editor (menu bar and buttons) and two clicks in stead of one.
• when I make classes for the editor to use (e.g. small, photo caption, quotation or what ever classes I make for the design) I cannot make them available in MicroTiny. Or did I completely miss the MT Manual?
In one thread we are answered

You can extend the functionality of MicroTiny (you always have been able to) by copying the template (it's actually a javascript template) to module_custom/MicroTiny/templates and making modifications there.

Well, good luck on that.
• there is no paste as plain text; we are advised to paste in Notepad first end then copy from that into MicroTiny.
Of course there is a menu option Clear formatting but when unleashing that on just a few lines of pasted Word-text the HTML-paragraphs themselves are cleaned up alright, but I'm still stuck with this:

Code: Select all

<!-- [if gte mso 9]><xml>
 <o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
  <o:RelyOnVML/>
  <o:AllowPNG/>
 </o:OfficeDocumentSettings>
</xml><![endif]--></p>
<p><!-- [if gte mso 9]><xml>
 <w:WordDocument>
  <w:View>Normal</w:View>
  <w:Zoom>0</w:Zoom>
  <w:TrackMoves/>
  <w:TrackFormatting/>
  <w:HyphenationZone>21</w:HyphenationZone>
  <w:PunctuationKerning/>
  <w:ValidateAgainstSchemas/>
  <w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>false</w:SaveIfXMLInvalid>
  <w:IgnoreMixedContent>false</w:IgnoreMixedContent>
  <w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>false</w:AlwaysShowPlaceholderText>
  <w:DoNotPromoteQF/>
  <w:LidThemeOther>NL</w:LidThemeOther>
...
 and this goes on for 324 lines

Not really a clean up.
• incomplete possibilities to make up images; the CMSMS logo in the MicroTiny example (Extensions > MicroTiny WYSIWYG editor) has align="right", but you cannot see that in the editor, nor can you change it, except when you go to the source and start editing HTML. Then what is the use of a WYSIWYG editor?
• MicroTiny always forces <p>-tags and I can't disable that.
• there's no way to make tables; to me this is as strange as not being able to insert images would be.

I am sincerely wondering if others also think we would be better off with an updated version of TinyMCE (currently TinyMCE doesn't seem to work in CMSMS 2).
Or if there are solutions to the above mentioned. And then I don't mean coding my own MicroTiny templates.
Are others missing other much used functionalities?
Or is everybody else completely happy with MicroTiny?

Frank

[calguy1000]

I am wondering if I'm the only one who is not too happy about MicroTiny being the only WYSIWYG editor in CMSMS 2.

The Full TinyMCE module is a third party addon module for CMSMS (and has been for years). It is unfortunate that that team has not yet released another version of the module, but that is not the dev team's responsibility. I do hear that a new version is in the works though.

• essential options like source code are only available from a pull down menu in stead of a simple button, which means a more complex interface for the editor (menu bar and buttons) and two clicks in stead of one.

WYWISYG Editors are designed for people that don't know HTML, and shouldn't, as a general rule be editing it. 'Source code' mode is for designers/developers. And you generally should not HAVE to edit the HTML that your client pulls in. Nor should you be mixing design level elements, or business logic in areas that editors can edit. Use the permissions model of CMSMS to deny your editors access to the pages where you are calling modules etc.

when I make classes for the editor to use (e.g. small, photo caption, quotation or what ever classes I make for the design) I cannot make them available in MicroTiny. Or did I completely miss the MT Manual?

MicroTiny and the content blocks have extended functionality to allow associating different stylesheets with the editor block so that elements in each separate wysiwyg area can be styled differently.

Adding custom styles in tinymce4 is more powerful and extensive than in previous versions, and more complicated. Though still possible by modifying the tinymce configuration. Though that requires reading the tinymce documentation.

there is no paste as plain text; we are advised to paste in Notepad first end then copy from that into MicroTiny.

The paste option in tinymce4 supposed to be smarter, and is intended to automatically clean up word's extra elements. Thus there should be no need for a separate 'paste as text' option. I don't use Microsoft products due to severe allergies, but I did test copying/pasting from LibreOffice into MicroTiny and it worked fine.

• MicroTiny always forces <p>-tags and I can't disable that.

This is tinymce's default behavior because <p> tag are more semantically correct, are stylable via your stylesheets, and directly simulate the behavior of word processors like word and OpenOffice. There are a few thousands comments about this regarding tinymce.

If you are having problems because some {ModuleCall} you place inside the wysiwyg area is automatically wrapped by <p> tags. then you are essentially mixing design, and content on the same page, which you probably shouldn't be doing. You should disable the wysiwyg editor for those pages, or at least that content block.

[calguy1000]

• incomplete possibilities to make up images; the CMSMS logo in the MicroTiny example (Extensions > MicroTiny WYSIWYG editor) has align="right", but you cannot see that in the editor, nor can you change it, except when you go to the source and start editing HTML. Then what is the use of a WYSIWYG editor?

The content in the MicroTiny example tab has been changed for the next version.

However, you can click on the image and tell it to align right, left, center, justify, and by clicking on the image icon you can edit spacing etc.

[sponna1]

We have recently upgraded to CMSMS 2 for a couple of clients and both have complained quite badly about the limitations of the editor, specifically the lack of 'Word' clean up and no facility for adding tables.

I understand the developers' views but at the end of the day, we're dealing with end users who like the simple 'one click' facilities, particularly when they had it before.

So not ideal (yet) would be our input. There are a few posts of a similar nature regarding the editor. Please take this constructively as we know you can't please everyone with a project like this; however the basic nature of the editor is causing us some fairly significant end-user issues. One of them also uses WordPress and it's really frustrating when they start banging on about how simple that editor is compared to CMSMS - they are fickle and simple stuff like that makes them forget how good other aspects of CMSMS are.

If end-users are struggling, then maybe worth looking at more closely?

Thanks
Dave

[Rolf]

Paste as plain text feature is fixed in SVN and will be shipped in next release.

[sponna1]

Thank you for the update - appreciated.

Any thoughts on the "table" editing please?

Thanks
Dave

[Rolf]

In CMSMS 2.1 MicroTiny also supports the Table plugin. It is disabled by default though, check settings.

[JamesT]

I'm very pleased to see table support introduced.

[sponna1]

Me too - thanks very much!

Appreciated

[musicscore]

No, you are not the only one who is NOT pleased with the MicroTiny editor in CMSMS version 2.x. I think if thats the only editor which comes to CMSMS 2 I wil have a big problem with my customers and I wil not be able to upgrade to CMSMS version 2.x.

Please please developers, give us back TinyMCE or CKEditor in CMSMS 2.x.

[calguy1000]

Please please developers, give us back TinyMCE or CKEditor in CMSMS 2.x.

TinyMCE has been a third party module in CMSMS for a long time. It is not the responsibility of the core CMSMS team to maintain third party modules.

[Rolf]

@musicscore Have you actually tested MicroTiny in 2.1?

[musicscore]

I did, but I mis things like setting the color and setting the font of the text. Also the links to other pages which is not in a dropdown is not as easy as it was. When adding a picture to the page, you must upload that picture from filemanager and so I have to give al editors access to the filemanager. In TinyMCE they could upload picytures without filemanager permisions. I know, designers wil say, we wil define the fonts and we wil say what style to use but my customers are use to have these selections and want to create there own pages. MicroTiny is a editor, I think, designed to restrict the editors and force them to the styles the developer has created.

It would be nice if I could choose between MicroTiny and TinyMCE.
I know it is not the responsibility of the core CMSMS team to maintain third party modules but I realy would like a developer (who maybe isn't a coreteam member) help us and made TinyMCE or CKEditor available for CMSMS 2.x. I'm not a developer and I do not have the knowledge to do so myself.

[calguy1000]

MicroTiny is a editor, I think, designed to restrict the editors and force them to the styles the developer has created.

This is exactly correct.

I know it is not the responsibility of the core CMSMS team to maintain third party modules but I realy would like a developer (who maybe isn't a coreteam member) help us and made TinyMCE or CKEditor available for CMSMS 2.x. I'm not a developer and I do not have the knowledge to do so myself.

Then you have numerous choices.

a: Contact the developer(s) of those other projects and find out how you can assist to push the project along (testing, documentation, etc). This doesn't cost any money but can cost some time.
b: Contact the other developer(s) of those other projects and see if you can encourage them to speed up their development and/or add features by using your wallet.
c: Pay somebody to develop a module to your specifications from scratch
d: Spend some time learning and write your own module.

Keep in mind. The dev team does not, can not (legally) and will not (morally) give out access to a third party project to anybody.

[musicscore]

Thank you for your quick response. I thinking about optie 4, learning to create my own module and maybe I manage to add the editor I want to CMSMS (if thats allowed by CMSMS otherwise let me know please).