E-commerce Package Discussion

Talk about new features for CMSMS and modules.
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tyman00
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E-commerce Package Discussion

Post by tyman00 »

Note: Below is a discussion that spawned from another feature request thread. It was split so it wouldn't derail the original.
replytomk3 wrote:
A single full featured and good looking shopping/store functionality (because people want everything to be included for free)
I am not sure I follow this request. Full featured? Have you looked in to the e-commerce suite? When you combine the different modules that easily rivals x-cart and zen-cart but you have the dynamic ability of CMSMS.

If you are asking for a single installer for all the functions... I don't think that will ever happen. Why? Because the different cart solutions (calguy's e-commerce suite, duclets suite and the cataloger suite) are designed so you can add modules as you need different functionalities without having features you don't need installed on your system. If you packaged the whole suite together it would be bloated and confusing. For example you don't need 3 different basket modules installed. Each one has their purpose but generally one would suffice.

If you want it packaged with CMSMS, that will never happen. I can assure you that, because that is the point of the system. Have a very simple and easy to use package out of the box and adding only what you need. Why force e-commerce on someone that doesn't have any need for it?
Last edited by tyman00 on Tue May 26, 2009 9:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
If all else fails, use a bigger hammer.
M@rtijn wrote: This is a community. This means that we work together and have the same goal (a beautiful CMS), not that we try to put people down and make their (voluntary) job as difficult as can be.
replytomk3

Re: Several large features requests

Post by replytomk3 »

tyman00, I agree that ecommerce is not core cmsms functionality. Neither is forum or chat. So how should it be: completely remove modules for this purpose and only suggest a third party plug in (smf forum fe), or instead ignore third party solutions and in-house develop modules for each of forum, chat, ecommerce, etc. Right now it is half way on all of these issues.

Then, if it is (crude example) decided that people looking for a forum need a third party solution will have a single checkbox that says "implement forum", taking care of all code wrapping. Right now, implementing a forum requires tweaking of embedding and skinning for the forum to look integral to the website.

So I was not at all suggesting someone clone a full blown ecommerce solution.
tyman00
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Re: Several large features requests

Post by tyman00 »

We may be on different pages here. The e-commerce suite that I am talking about is a grouping of modules that are CMSMS specific and integrate directly into the system and templating.

The Forum, Chat and Third-party plugins that you speak of were obviously not developed with CMSMS in mind. There are some CMSMS modules designed to hook them into the system with ease, but the majority of those modules are no longer functioning because either CMSMS or the 3rd party app was upgraded and rendered the module unusable.

Also when I speak of core... I speak of the modules that are installed by default (CMSMailer, News, TinyMCE, etc.) not the modules that are listed in the Module Manager those are pulled from the development forge (dev.cmsmadesimple.org)
If all else fails, use a bigger hammer.
M@rtijn wrote: This is a community. This means that we work together and have the same goal (a beautiful CMS), not that we try to put people down and make their (voluntary) job as difficult as can be.
jmcgin51
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Re: Several large features requests

Post by jmcgin51 »

While I agree with the modular philosophy of CMSMS, I do think it would improve the "user-friendly" experience if the developers of the ecommerce "suites" could put together a separate package (call it "Calguy's Ecommerce Suite", or whatever is appropriate) that would include everything needed to implement a full ecommerce solution, preferably with a single installer.  I would envision this being offered IN ADDITION TO, not in place of, the existing individual ecommerce-related modules.  (If a single installer is unworkable, then could at least package all the modules together in a single tarball so that the user knows he is getting everything he needs with a single download.)

So a minimalist user could pick and choose only the modules he/she actually needs, while a noob could download/install the entire suite at once, without needing to figure out exactly which modules are required.  The only choice required would be "do I use Calguy's apps, Duketown's apps, etc.?")  Later, unused parts of the suite could be uninstalled individually, just as can be done now.

Just a thought.
replytomk3

Re: Several large features requests

Post by replytomk3 »

Good comments from everybody on ecommerce. I have known already from reading the forum that ecommerce functionality is something that many people complain about. But at the suggestion of tyman00, it will be split to a separate feature suggestion.
tyman00
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Re: Several large features requests

Post by tyman00 »

jmcgin51 wrote: While I agree with the modular philosophy of CMSMS, I do think it would improve the "user-friendly" experience if the developers of the ecommerce "suites" could put together a separate package (call it "Calguy's Ecommerce Suite", or whatever is appropriate) that would include everything needed to implement a full ecommerce solution, preferably with a single installer.  I would envision this being offered IN ADDITION TO, not in place of, the existing individual ecommerce-related modules.  (If a single installer is unworkable, then could at least package all the modules together in a single tarball so that the user knows he is getting everything he needs with a single download.)

So a minimalist user could pick and choose only the modules he/she actually needs, while a noob could download/install the entire suite at once, without needing to figure out exactly which modules are required.  The only choice required would be "do I use Calguy's apps, Duketown's apps, etc.?")  Later, unused parts of the suite could be uninstalled individually, just as can be done now.

Just a thought.
I can't say that I disagree with this thought process, but I still think keeping it separate is the better way to go.

1.) Each time calguy updates one of the modules included in the package, he has to update the package. More work for his already overflowing plate.
2.) Which modules should be included? What one person needs here the next guy won't. You will never create a package that satisfies everyone, unless you package every e-commerce module together. I just counted 17 (and I think I missed a few) modules that would/could/should be bundled together. But it is also redundant because there are multiple payment gateways, tax calculators and shipping calculators. Not everyone will use all options (sometimes you can only use one). This also brings me back to point 1. It would double calguy's time when it comes time to release an update to any one of those 17 modules. I downloaded all of those modules and found that the install size would be HUGE if you bundled them all together. It is 2/3 the size of the base installer for CMSMS.  :o

I will see if I can't work on a page in the Wiki or have calguy put a list on his site that shows all of the "e-commerce suite" modules and their purpose so it will make it easier for everyone to figure out what they need and what they want to download. I can even provide links to the download page on the forge. The suite is awesome and continues to grow to this day so any promotion won't hurt :)
If all else fails, use a bigger hammer.
M@rtijn wrote: This is a community. This means that we work together and have the same goal (a beautiful CMS), not that we try to put people down and make their (voluntary) job as difficult as can be.
replytomk3

Re: E-commerce Package Discussion

Post by replytomk3 »

I am now in the process of installing all relevant modules that I could find and seeing what king of an ecommerce solution they make together. Already several errors and crashes have occured, so I will need some time to mount a proper defense.
jmcgin51
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Re: Several large features requests

Post by jmcgin51 »

tyman00 wrote: I will see if I can't work on a page in the Wiki or have calguy put a list on his site that shows all of the "e-commerce suite" modules and their purpose so it will make it easier for everyone to figure out what they need and what they want to download. I can even provide links to the download page on the forge. The suite is awesome and continues to grow to this day so any promotion won't hurt :)
This would be awesome.  The name of each module in the respective suites, and why a user would need it.
viebig

Re: E-commerce Package Discussion

Post by viebig »

I will be brief.

I think a really basic store with few products can use the existing modules.

At the same time I agree ecommerce is far beyond the objective of CMSMS.

Because of that I think a full ecommerce solution can be developed as a fork of CMSMS. Like CMSMS Commerce Edition.

Still will be CMSMS made simple, but bundled with the commerce modules on the core, with a improved and focused admin menu, driven to the store owner/administrator. In my point of view, thats make more sense than the solutions of ecommerce avaiable for cmsms right in this moment.

Looking for that direction I think CMSMS can be great, competitive, scalable and flexible comparing to other best shopping carts available on net.

Regards

G
replytomk3

Re: E-commerce Package Discussion

Post by replytomk3 »

And alright, I have a confession to make. What I meant by an ecommerce solution is a single click-click drag and drop ready-made solution (isn't that what all people expect from something titled Made Simple?). Currently, I am trying to stitch together the available modules required for a shop, but three don't even want to work as described in link.
Last edited by replytomk3 on Sat May 30, 2009 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Jeff
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Re: E-commerce Package Discussion

Post by Jeff »

Here is Calguy1000's quick guide to his set of modules http://calguy1000.com/Blogs/8/60/cmsms- ... ow-to.html
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