I've made a couple of sites now in CMSms and love it. Now I've been asked to look at doing a joomla install for someone and after the install, which was very easy, I've been banging my head against the wall trying to figure out where things are and how to customize them - I'll manage if I have to but I feel like I'm riding my bike with my helmet on backwards. My question to the group is: what would be your top reasons to use CMSms over joomla? The site I'm looking at building will be maintained by non computer types and some of the pages will potentially need to have unique css (font types, backgrounds, or just generally a different theme). Other features required will be a customizable calendar with multiple instances for each category (I know how to do this in CMSms), expandability to write whole new sections to bring in other company departments, plus allot of the usual requirements of a mid size business.
I'm at the stage now where I can switch them to CMSms if only I can "prove" that it will be the right choice for them. I've been doing allot of reading on both systems but I thought I might as well see what the group has to say about it. Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks so much!
cmsms vs joomla
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henris
Re: cmsms vs joomla
You named it :
design has more flexibility. Just watch joomla sites, they all look alike.
Henri
design has more flexibility. Just watch joomla sites, they all look alike.
Henri
Re: cmsms vs joomla
I have run into these problems before where I client suggest I use a certain CMS because they heard good things about it. I then just simply show them the backend of their CMS and CMSMS. Let them try it out for awhile and ask them which they prefer. For me anyways, they always says CMSMS.
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Pierre M.
Re: cmsms vs joomla
Customer's choice and competition make products better 
Customers' use cases and products' designs make choice.
2 cents
Customers' use cases and products' designs make choice.
2 cents
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SideshowBob
- Forum Members
- Posts: 80
- Joined: Thu Sep 13, 2007 10:50 am
- Location: Bristol, UK
Re: cmsms vs joomla
For me the whole point of a CMS is to give non technical people an easy way to update a site. Joomla has power and thousands of plugins but it's not easy to use.
Amongst other things, adding menu items is not easy and it's pretty hard to have multiple content blocks in Joomla. Say you have a page with content in the main column and related content in the side column and you want to edit them both as 1 page then Joomla struggles (as do a lot of other cms's).
CMSMS obviously make is simple
The Joomla feature that I would like to see in CMSMS is front end page editing. I know it's not "that" big a deal but I think it impresses clients.
Bob
Amongst other things, adding menu items is not easy and it's pretty hard to have multiple content blocks in Joomla. Say you have a page with content in the main column and related content in the side column and you want to edit them both as 1 page then Joomla struggles (as do a lot of other cms's).
CMSMS obviously make is simple
The Joomla feature that I would like to see in CMSMS is front end page editing. I know it's not "that" big a deal but I think it impresses clients.
Bob
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nhaack
Re: cmsms vs joomla
A friend of mine uses Joomla, while I prefer CMSMS. So from time to time over lunch we discuss the two CMS.
It's actually a nice CMSMS, but truely, the module choice is quite large. However, the more widespread a system is, the more plug-ins will be developed. Also a "potential thread" for CMSMS... that sooner or later there will be more and more similar modules. Joomla has some pretty decent extensions and do a wonderful job.
Anyway. For some of his clients he needed more simple functionality... thus he wrote something on his own with own simple admin interface integrated in the site - which perfectly shows the problem that has been mentioned already: it is too complex for the target audience.
Big companies that use enterprise CMS often have specially trained people use the CMS. But for open source CMS, the tendency is that they are used for smaller sites, for smaller companies, friends, etcs... often, sites have to be maintained by people with little understanding of computers and web applications.
And this is the second strength of CMSMS, being intuitive for the editor.
It's first strength (for my personal use of the system) is definitely its simplicity to modify to match project needs. I am no real programmer, but CMSMS is by far the most relaxed CMSMS if have used for my coding exercises - and nearly every time I use it, I find out some nice and easy functionality.
Also documentation got a lot better recently. The wiki became a good starting point in my option. I am not that familiar with the Joomla documentation, thus I can not really judge on this.
However, I must agree with my friend when he says that CMSMS isn't very sexy on first sight. Don't get me wrong, it's a kick ass CMS, but people who are used fancy WEB 2.0 mainstream look at a default design that is a little retro (both front and backend). There are very nice back end and front end themes ready-to-go, but try-out-users may not test them. In this point I agree with Pierre M.
I wish I could help in this respect, but I'm not very good at template design (this is always taking the longest in my projects). On the other hands, this may primarily attract more technical users. Which doesn't has to be a bad thing
Oh, and another big point for CMSMS is the community. You get information for everything! But I can not judge on the community of Joomla. Haven't participated there.
As a summary, I would say:
First Impression:
CMSMS: 0
Joomla: 1
Ease-of-Use:
CMSMS: 1
Joomla: 0
Basic Technology:
CMSMS: 1
Joomla: 1
Developer Fexiblity:
CMSMS: 1
Joomla: 0
3:2 for CMSMS (excluding community)
Best
Nils
It's actually a nice CMSMS, but truely, the module choice is quite large. However, the more widespread a system is, the more plug-ins will be developed. Also a "potential thread" for CMSMS... that sooner or later there will be more and more similar modules. Joomla has some pretty decent extensions and do a wonderful job.
Anyway. For some of his clients he needed more simple functionality... thus he wrote something on his own with own simple admin interface integrated in the site - which perfectly shows the problem that has been mentioned already: it is too complex for the target audience.
Big companies that use enterprise CMS often have specially trained people use the CMS. But for open source CMS, the tendency is that they are used for smaller sites, for smaller companies, friends, etcs... often, sites have to be maintained by people with little understanding of computers and web applications.
And this is the second strength of CMSMS, being intuitive for the editor.
It's first strength (for my personal use of the system) is definitely its simplicity to modify to match project needs. I am no real programmer, but CMSMS is by far the most relaxed CMSMS if have used for my coding exercises
- and nearly every time I use it, I find out some nice and easy functionality.Also documentation got a lot better recently. The wiki became a good starting point in my option. I am not that familiar with the Joomla documentation, thus I can not really judge on this.
However, I must agree with my friend when he says that CMSMS isn't very sexy on first sight. Don't get me wrong, it's a kick ass CMS, but people who are used fancy WEB 2.0 mainstream look at a default design that is a little retro (both front and backend). There are very nice back end and front end themes ready-to-go, but try-out-users may not test them. In this point I agree with Pierre M.
I wish I could help in this respect, but I'm not very good at template design (this is always taking the longest in my projects). On the other hands, this may primarily attract more technical users. Which doesn't has to be a bad thing
Oh, and another big point for CMSMS is the community. You get information for everything! But I can not judge on the community of Joomla. Haven't participated there.
As a summary, I would say:
First Impression:
CMSMS: 0
Joomla: 1
Ease-of-Use:
CMSMS: 1
Joomla: 0
Basic Technology:
CMSMS: 1
Joomla: 1
Developer Fexiblity:
CMSMS: 1
Joomla: 0
3:2 for CMSMS (excluding community)
Best
Nils
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richardkean
- Forum Members
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Mon Oct 20, 2008 5:27 pm
Re: cmsms vs joomla
Wow, thanks for all the input! I only had a couple of days to research Joomla and write something up so it isn't perfect and I might have missed the point on some of the Joomla stuff. I would love feedback from anyone - especially if I'm wrong about something or if there is fault in my thinking. Just a note though... this wasn't intended to say that one is better than the other just that CMS was more appropriate for the clients needs. If I get enough feedback I will republish with edits for anyone else to reference.
Thanks!
Comparative Review of “Joomla!” and “CMS Made Simple” Content Management Systems
Similarities:
1. Both Joomla! And CMSMS offer a scalable open source platform solution where a content management system is sought.
2. Each is built with the scripting language PHP, connects to a MySQL data base, and is served on apache web server (IIS is also available).
3. Each offers a large number of plugins and third party extension to provide additional product features.
4. Each provides a “user focused” administration system for content submission, organization, and management.
Differences:
1. Site administration:
a. The Joomla! structure model places PHP code and HTML code in the same file to define the layout of given template. Additionally modules are called directly in the template code with PHP script. To make administration of the site content user friendly a robust set of tools is provided in the graphic interface of the user administration panel. Modifications to the site layout beyond the templates intended use require editing the files directly which requires knowledge of HTML, CSS, and most importantly PHP.
b. CMSMS is built with complete separation of structure, style, and content. Pages are treated as objects and can be assigned attributes (template, css, menus, miscellaneous modules, etc). This makes the addition of modules or layout templates much more customizable. Page editing is also much easier since the page layout built in pure HTML, the page style is organized with standard CSS, and the references to modules (calendar, feedback form, forum, etc) is achieved with the use of “Smarty Tags”. [Smarty tags are an extension to HTML where php or java script can be referenced via a “tag” in the HTML code. It is also possible to pass parameters though the tag to have multiple instances of a module each displaying unique content]. CMSMS also provides the user with a friendly graphical interface to navigate and build a site.
2. Information organization:
a. Joomla! Organizes pages in a predefined structure. New “pages” are added to the site as an Article- Articles can be assigned to Categories - Categories can be assigned to Sections. Further information structure is built by assigning item relationships in the menu system. Individual articles, categories and sections can all be independently customized but only within the confines of the provided tools. Additionally since each Page is served within the main page customization of the style template is only possible if the template itself was written with a style subset.
b. CMSMS uses a hierarchy model to create page relationships. Pages are assigned to a parent with no limits to the level of branching. Since the site structure itself is separated from the content it is possible to have a unique style sheet for each page or even a unique layout.
3. User management:
a. Joomla! uses 7 predefined user rolls (Front end: writer, editor, publisher; back-end: writer, editor, publisher, and administrator). Permissions for each user type are predefined to suit the roll of its name sake.
b. CMSMS employs a group policy system where permissions can be assigned on a per object basis – Similar to unix access policies or Active directory. One of the obvious advantages is the ability to assign users permissions to a specific section of the application. For example you could create a special admin group with permission to add/remove/edit users but with no access to the template system.
Since both systems are built on PHP it is possible to do “anything” in either system. They each have a large community and extensive catalog of prebuilt modules. Without question Joomla! has the larger community and offers a wider selection of plugins and third party modules. However, CMSMS provides greater flexibility in basic site design and user management. Consequently CMCMS should allow for a shorter overall development time and provide a more structured platform for ongoing post build maintenance and developemnt.
Thanks!
Comparative Review of “Joomla!” and “CMS Made Simple” Content Management Systems
Similarities:
1. Both Joomla! And CMSMS offer a scalable open source platform solution where a content management system is sought.
2. Each is built with the scripting language PHP, connects to a MySQL data base, and is served on apache web server (IIS is also available).
3. Each offers a large number of plugins and third party extension to provide additional product features.
4. Each provides a “user focused” administration system for content submission, organization, and management.
Differences:
1. Site administration:
a. The Joomla! structure model places PHP code and HTML code in the same file to define the layout of given template. Additionally modules are called directly in the template code with PHP script. To make administration of the site content user friendly a robust set of tools is provided in the graphic interface of the user administration panel. Modifications to the site layout beyond the templates intended use require editing the files directly which requires knowledge of HTML, CSS, and most importantly PHP.
b. CMSMS is built with complete separation of structure, style, and content. Pages are treated as objects and can be assigned attributes (template, css, menus, miscellaneous modules, etc). This makes the addition of modules or layout templates much more customizable. Page editing is also much easier since the page layout built in pure HTML, the page style is organized with standard CSS, and the references to modules (calendar, feedback form, forum, etc) is achieved with the use of “Smarty Tags”. [Smarty tags are an extension to HTML where php or java script can be referenced via a “tag” in the HTML code. It is also possible to pass parameters though the tag to have multiple instances of a module each displaying unique content]. CMSMS also provides the user with a friendly graphical interface to navigate and build a site.
2. Information organization:
a. Joomla! Organizes pages in a predefined structure. New “pages” are added to the site as an Article- Articles can be assigned to Categories - Categories can be assigned to Sections. Further information structure is built by assigning item relationships in the menu system. Individual articles, categories and sections can all be independently customized but only within the confines of the provided tools. Additionally since each Page is served within the main page customization of the style template is only possible if the template itself was written with a style subset.
b. CMSMS uses a hierarchy model to create page relationships. Pages are assigned to a parent with no limits to the level of branching. Since the site structure itself is separated from the content it is possible to have a unique style sheet for each page or even a unique layout.
3. User management:
a. Joomla! uses 7 predefined user rolls (Front end: writer, editor, publisher; back-end: writer, editor, publisher, and administrator). Permissions for each user type are predefined to suit the roll of its name sake.
b. CMSMS employs a group policy system where permissions can be assigned on a per object basis – Similar to unix access policies or Active directory. One of the obvious advantages is the ability to assign users permissions to a specific section of the application. For example you could create a special admin group with permission to add/remove/edit users but with no access to the template system.
Since both systems are built on PHP it is possible to do “anything” in either system. They each have a large community and extensive catalog of prebuilt modules. Without question Joomla! has the larger community and offers a wider selection of plugins and third party modules. However, CMSMS provides greater flexibility in basic site design and user management. Consequently CMCMS should allow for a shorter overall development time and provide a more structured platform for ongoing post build maintenance and developemnt.
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nhaack
Re: cmsms vs joomla
I can not agree here (no offence)
It may be true that Joomla has more existing modules dedicated to advanced SEO techniques, but CMSMS can be perfectly used for high SEO demands. SEO has many facettes and aspects but there are not many things you can't do with CMSMS. It requires some more efforts on the templating and coding side though. But adapting CMSMS to your very site specific SEO demands with own add-ons is actualy pretty nifty.
Best
Nils
(no offence)It may be true that Joomla has more existing modules dedicated to advanced SEO techniques, but CMSMS can be perfectly used for high SEO demands. SEO has many facettes and aspects but there are not many things you can't do with CMSMS. It requires some more efforts on the templating and coding side though. But adapting CMSMS to your very site specific SEO demands with own add-ons is actualy pretty nifty.
Best
Nils
Re: cmsms vs joomla
I think the question here is not technical; that is, its going to depend on the user's ability and what they want to achieve - their expectations.
It will depend on how robust of a management system is required by the end user. For instance, someone mention earlier that Joomla offers the ability to edit pages from the front end. CMSMS does not. For the user, this may be a less 'technical' way of managing content. For people who are designated webmasters by their company (for instance - a technical school 2 year grad). CMSMS may be a better option.
It really all comes down to the requirements of the end user. Remember SDLC (systems development life cycle). One of the first steps in that process is gathering the requirements from the end user before developement. This piece to the SDLC puzzle saves costly overruns, develops a relationship between user and developer, and allows the developer to see the unique level of technical compentacy that the end user has. This will help you to make a clear decision between the two CMSs.
It will depend on how robust of a management system is required by the end user. For instance, someone mention earlier that Joomla offers the ability to edit pages from the front end. CMSMS does not. For the user, this may be a less 'technical' way of managing content. For people who are designated webmasters by their company (for instance - a technical school 2 year grad). CMSMS may be a better option.
It really all comes down to the requirements of the end user. Remember SDLC (systems development life cycle). One of the first steps in that process is gathering the requirements from the end user before developement. This piece to the SDLC puzzle saves costly overruns, develops a relationship between user and developer, and allows the developer to see the unique level of technical compentacy that the end user has. This will help you to make a clear decision between the two CMSs.
Re: cmsms vs joomla
I'm curious to know why they think Joomla! is the ideal solution for them? They sound like they're pretty set on you using it, so where have they got their information from to make such a firm decision?
As I see it, the point of all CMSs, regardless of the actual system, is to make editing easy for non technical people. If all CMSs can do this (and we know CMSMS certainly can), then doesn't it come down to what you the developer is most comfortable developing the site with? In this case that arguement is surely substantiated by your previous experience of CMSMS.
In all cases so far, websites developed under CMSMS have been a dream to use by the people I developed them for. The security model only goes to enhance the experience in that it provides both security and simplicity by removing things from the backend that might confuse people who don't need to know about them.
Fraser.
As I see it, the point of all CMSs, regardless of the actual system, is to make editing easy for non technical people. If all CMSs can do this (and we know CMSMS certainly can), then doesn't it come down to what you the developer is most comfortable developing the site with? In this case that arguement is surely substantiated by your previous experience of CMSMS.
In all cases so far, websites developed under CMSMS have been a dream to use by the people I developed them for. The security model only goes to enhance the experience in that it provides both security and simplicity by removing things from the backend that might confuse people who don't need to know about them.
Fraser.
Re: cmsms vs joomla
Yea and have you ever tried to make a menu in j*** it is not auto generated like in cmsms you actually have to make it yourself, well maybe it will make some kind of dippy link thing but from all I've read it has to be forced to make one, ha give me a break your going to give a cms system to the end user and oh by the way to add that new page you have to do this, then do that, and this and if you lucky it will show up on the menu...
Ever notice the biggest board on their site is dedicated to security, more post and topics than any others, and you have to pay someone else to even start thinking about a new template, not just use a free template from freetemplates.com or oswd.com or one of the other free template sites, they won't work with j***...
Ever notice the biggest board on their site is dedicated to security, more post and topics than any others, and you have to pay someone else to even start thinking about a new template, not just use a free template from freetemplates.com or oswd.com or one of the other free template sites, they won't work with j***...
