Why aren't the menu templates editable? - cmsmadehard [SOLVED]

[chuck]

Hello all,
Do I have to purchase an unlock code to be permitted to edit the (default) menu template(s)?
I have tried, and tried. But I cannot find the menu template(s) anywhere. I have found
all of the other templates for the CMS. I am able to modify the one of choice for my CMS. I
have changed the CSS for my CMS. But it looks like CMSMS does not allow for editing the
menu template(s). Why doesn't CMSMS want to allow their users to be able to edit the
menu template(s) like they allow to edit the site template(s)? Is this some kind of cruel
joke? My CMS looks like crap because everything in the CSS for the menu has been
customized, and the site template, and site CSS has all been customized to look proper.
But CMSMS will not allow me to find the current menu template, so I can fix/edit it.

Sorry if I am mistaken. But CMSMS also does not appear to have any documentation. At
least it didn't come with v.1.24 which I downloaded here. I also could not find any location
to download the CMSMS documentation.

Thanks in advance.

Chuck

[cubix]

layout > menu manager

file templates tab

icon on right hand side with blue arrow.

give it a name

and edit it on the database templates tab

oh and documentation? http://wiki.cmsmadesimple.org

[chuck]

Hello cubix. Thank you for your reply.

layout > menu manager

file templates tab

icon on right hand side with blue arrow.

give it a name

and edit it on the database templates tab

As I understand it, this will import one of the available menu templates into the database.
What I was hoping to do, is edit the existing menu template that is already in use. Is there a way
to find and edit that template?

oh and documentation? http://wiki.cmsmadesimple.org

Yes, I see this, this is a wiki. But I was looking for documentation on this. Documentation would provide
an efficient means of discovering answers to questions. It would also provide answers that are pertinent
to the current version. A search for "documentation" in the forms here, seems to indicate that alot of
other people feel the same way. Why do the developers refuse to create/maintain documentation for CMSMS?

Thanks again for your reply.

[alby]

What I was hoping to do, is edit the existing menu template that is already in use. Is there a way to find and edit that template?

Same place: layout > menu manager > your template

Why do the developers refuse to create/maintain documentation for CMSMS?

The developers don't refuse to create/maintain documentation for CMSMS but are involved in the development of CMSMS.
Is a current problem and if you want to participate ...

Alby

[chuck]

What I was hoping to do, is edit the existing menu template that is already in use. Is there a way to find and edit that template?

Same place: layout > menu manager > your template

Hello Alby. Thank you for your reply.
I followed this, and imported the template:simple_navigation.tpl.
CMSMS asked me to give it a name. So I chose:simple_nav.tpl. I then went to the site template:Left simple navigation + 1 column
which is the one I customized, and told it to use my imported menu template:simple_nav.tpl. Now when I bring up
the site page, there is no menu at all. Smarty complains:
string(83) "Smarty error: unable to read resource: "module_file_tpl:MenuManager;simple_nav.tpl""

Smarty has permission to (and has been) writing to the cache folder.

Isn't there an easy way to use a menu that reflects the web site that the CMS is on? Please don't get me
wrong; Everything else about CMSMS is made simple. But, using CSS for building a menu is very easy.
Using CSS to build a menu in CMSMS is not possible it seems. From my current stand point, it looks
like the only way to use CMSMS is to use the menu/templates/CSS that are already installed with CMSMS.
So if you want your web site to look like anything but the default CMSMS, you're out of luck.
Sorry for the vented frustration. It's just that I've spent the last 2.5 days making CMSMS look like US. All that
was left, was to correct the menu, so that it had OUR links, and OUR styling. But it seems that changing
the menu will be extremely difficult, or impossible.

Thank you very much for taking the time to respond.

Chuck

Why do the developers refuse to create/maintain documentation for CMSMS?

The developers don't refuse to create/maintain documentation for CMSMS but are involved in the development of CMSMS.
Is a current problem and if you want to participate ...

Alby

I don't see where I could help with the documentation. I would need the developers to document CMSMS, so I
could document it.

[chuck]

OK. Well, I just deleted the simple_nav.tpl that I had imported/named. Then I
imported simple_nav.tpl, and made the necessary changes to it. Then
deleted (cleared) the cache. Then loaded up our page. But nothing changed. That is; all that
is displayed is the default CMSMS menu. None of the changes I made are acknowledged. I did
a "view source" from my browser, and confirmed that all that is used in the menu, is the CMSMS
default menu. None of the changes that I made to the "imported" menu are used. CMSMS just
ignores everything. Looks like this menu thing doesn't work in version 1.24 of CMSMS. Will it
work if I use an older version of CMSMS?

Thank you in advance.

Chuck

[leslie894]

Sorry if I am mistaken. But CMSMS also does not appear to have any documentation. At
least it didn't come with v.1.24 which I downloaded here. I also could not find any location
to download the CMSMS documentation.

Did you try checking the documentation that comes with CMSMS? There's a help page for the menumanager that explains all this, ie. there is documentation. You need to specify as a parameter what template to use when you call the menu if you don't want to use the default template. The description of the parameter is fairly clear on how to use it.

You do realize this is FREE software developed as a project by many different people on a volunteer basis? Not to mention that this is a fairly new project? I am constantly amazed by the success of open source -- that so many people are willing to give back their time in return for the ability to use the software free of charge in commercial projects. It's phenomenal!

Given the propularity of CMSMS, someone may eventually write CMSMS: A Visual Quick Start Guide or CMSMS For Dummies. Until then, we will hope that the documentation project attracts lots of volunteers!

[chuck]

OK. I figured it out the only way to do this.
1) Disregard the advice in the wiki if you're using v.1.24.
2) Go to your modules/MenuManager/templates folder and copy one of the templates you wish to use to a file of a different name.
3) Now go to the admin > MenuManager > File Templates, and choose your newly renamed template > import
4) Go to the admin > MenuManager > Database Templates, and edit your newly renamed/imported template.
5) Use it.
6) Ask the developers to stop development of CMSMS until they have developed some documentation for it.

Chuck

[Bobonov]

It seem you solved, anyway when you import a template in the db NEVER use .tpl in the name otherwise CMSMS look for a file rather than the db.
Once you imported the template in the DB you should open very page template where you want to use the new menu template and change it to the new name.
In the case of a standard installation in the page template you will find:
{menu template='simple_navigation.tpl' collapse='1'}

change simple_navigation.tpl to the new template name and again nevere use .tpl extension for a name of a db template.

[Pierre M.]

Welcome Chuck !

OK. I figured it out the only way to do this...

7) Let Chuck (with Bobonov?) improve the wiki with his forum account

Pierre M.

[chuck]

Welcome Chuck !

Hello Pierre M. and thank you.

OK. I figured it out the only way to do this...

7) Let Chuck (with Bobonov?) improve the wiki with his forum account

Pierre M.

Thank you for your vote of confidence Pierre M.
But most people that come to use CMSMS are hoping to develop their web sites -
not to develop CMSMS/CMSMS documentation.
If we develop the CMSMS documentation for the CMSMS devs, will they develop our
web sites?

Chuck

[anivision]

Welcome Chuck !

Hello Pierre M. and thank you.

OK. I figured it out the only way to do this...

7) Let Chuck (with Bobonov?) improve the wiki with his forum account

Pierre M.

Thank you for your vote of confidence Pierre M.
But most people that come to use CMSMS are hoping to develop their web sites -
not to develop CMSMS/CMSMS documentation.
If we develop the CMSMS documentation for the CMSMS devs, will they develop our
web sites?

Chuck

They will probably not develop your website cos they are alredy filled up with work with the next generation of CMSMS, and they do this on there spare time without payment. If we all who use this CMS take SOME of our spare time to update the wiki when we figure our some tricks and solutions the whole project will move forward. The thought of open source projects is that everyone who can contribute do so, not just some do it for the rest of us.

Is it really to much to ask for, that you write some lines in the wiki after all the time the rest of the writers in this thread has put in to solve your problem? (not to mention the time the developers has spent developing the whole CMSMS)

If you want a CMS where you can demand things from the developers, get yourself a commersial one, and be prepared to pay a lot for it...

[chuck]

Hello,
Make no mistake - I am grateful that the DEV's allow others to use the fruits of their labor. But I've been developing
for 30 years, and it didn't take me long to discover that documentation needs to be written while you are
writing your application. Or you end up in a situation like CMSMS is in now - a great many frustrated users looking
to decrease their anxiety level by finding answers to their questions. But finding that the documentation they seek
that will have the answers the require, does not exist. There by, further increasing their anxiety level.
A: Sure, but CMSMS has made a wiki to help them.
Indeed, and it still - after all it's time of existence, doesn't have enough information to be considered "documentation".
So CMSMS users are still left frustrated.
A: Yes, but the forum will help where the wiki does not.
While the forum can offer a solution. There is no guarantee the user will find the answer. Nor is there a requirement
for anyone to answer their question/solve their problem.
A: OK. But won't writing all the documentation slow/delay the release/development of the application?
No - at least not significantly. In fact, in many ways it actually speeds up development.

Case in point:
I just finished an application - Anti-spam Mail server & block list. It took me 3.5 weeks to develop. I spent 1.9 years
testing the Anti-spam/block list to insure it was as effective as I intended it to be, and had no errors. I was only
too pleased to discover that it was even better than I had anticipated.
Anyway, to the point; as usual I documented everything I was doing inside the code. It is done as comments:
//, or /* as appropriate. By doing so - especially in a large project,
you have quick reference to what you were thinking/what the function was intended to do, etc. All right there, when you
need it. This really helps the developer. Because, with a larger project, it can take quite some time to produce it.
So it is easy to forget what this module/function/whatever was intended to do, what was left to do, what it's ultimate
goal was intended to be. If you have heavily commented toe code, your memory will be instantly refreshed, when you
open it. This saves development time.
A: OK. But all those comments can't really be considered documentation, and won't it take a long time to get all
those comments out of the code?
Sure, all those comments are not documentation in the sense that most people consider documentation. But it's
a long way to becoming documentation, and wouldn't require very much time/work to polish into real documentation.
If fact, if all the developers did was provide the code comments as documentation, they'd be a lot further toward helping
their users get answers. What's more; many of the users that do have time, can submit sections that they have
organised to the DEV's. Before you know it, the documentation is finished.
A: Yes, but you still didn't answer how to get the comments out of the code.
That's really quite easy, with the aid of cat, (f|e|)grep, sed, and awk.
Any seasoned developer is already intimately familiar with these. As a matter of fact, many books that you read were written
with just these, and a couple of other text processing commands.
This also means two more things; the time the DEV's spend in the forum can now be better spent developing. The
time the users spend in the forum can be spent telling others how to enhance their experience with CMSMS -
rather that figuring out how to use it.

Bottom line.
I am guessing that the omission of documentation for CMSMS was simply an oversight by it's developers. An
oversight I dearly hope they don't make with the release of version 2 of CMSMS.

Well, that's about all the time I have. I am about to embark on another project -
a web server that will make the Apache server obsolete. I anticipate that initial development will take 2.5 weeks.
So I need to get started. Did I mention it will have documentation.

Again, I want to thank the CMSMS DEV's for sharing the fruits of their labor.

All the best.

Chuck

[calguy1000]

if you're that concerned about documentation, and apparently you're a developer, feel free to document my code.  I wont be offended.

Quite honestly.... only a small fraction of the people that use a package like this can even read code... about the same percentage would even read documentation if it existed.... there is a 'documentation' link on the home page of the site and the forum, and very few people read it.  Believe me I answer the same questions all the time that are clearly explained in the documentation and/or in the help section of the various modules. 

I would rather spend time writing code and fixing bugs for myself and others than spend time writing documentation that nobody will read anyways. 

But go ahead, feel free, document as much code as you want.

[chuck]

LOL!
Agreed. Having developed as many years as I have, I do understand what you mean when you say
"most don't even read the documentation anyway". As a matter of fact, I just got done solving a problem
someone was having with the {embed} tag. If you read my post there, please note
my comment about "Having read the documentation".

In spite of it all, I still believe in documentation. Think about it; would you become a Brain Surgeon without
reading the necessary literature in College? Or would you just use a wiki?

All the best.

Chuck