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Why CMSMS really needs inline editing/in-place editing

Posted: Sat Jun 13, 2009 6:32 pm
by SeLfkiLL
I'm sure the idea of having some kind of inline editor has been thrown around here before. However, I think a feature such as this is the inevitable future for content management systems. Thus, I suggest CMSMS be the first content management system to officially implement it and I have some ideas of how to do it.

What is an inline editor?
Before I dive into the implementation, let's discuss some background for inline editing for those who are new to this idea. Inline editing is the concept of being able to edit content on a page directly as it is, without having to view the content in a separate editor outside of its template. This allows for greater control over how the content will look visually as it is on a page. Additionally, it allows more rapid development as the content writer does not have to keep saving/reloading pages as they are being worked on to check how it looks in their final form. Several concepts of this in action can be viewed here: http://24ways.org/2005/edit-in-place-with-ajax and here: http://tool-man.org/examples/edit-in-place.html

How should this be implemented with CMSMS?
Since the theme around here seems to be simplicity, I have put together a simple solution. My suggestion would be to create a section from within the admin backend to navigate to the page you want to edit and then simply have the edit toolbars load in one frame at top and the actual page load in another frame below. Then an admin can hover over areas where there is content, simply click that area to edit it and that content will automatically turn into an editable area. All the content will have to turn back into its original form (raw from the database I assume, un-parsed by CMSMS or Smarty) to be edited. I'd suggest using something like http://nicedit.com/demos.php?demo=4 for the WYSIWYG editor (unless TinyMCE/FCKEditor has similar inline editing functionality).

Once an admin has finished editing their content, they simple click "Save" on the top toolbar and the editable area disappears. The content is then sent AJAX style to be re-processed and then sent back to the browser so it can be viewed as it should look.

Final Thoughts
Since CMSMS is positioned to be the most easy and intuitive content management system to use, I believe this is the next logical step for CMSMS to take to progress its role. Not only would this feature further continue its goal of simplicity, it would also boost its ability to compete and help become a leading open source content management system. No other major content management system has such a genuinely needed feature and I'd love to see it become an additional selling point for CMSMS's to complement its already existing array of great features.

Re: Why CMSMS really needs inline editing/in-place editing

Posted: Sun Jun 14, 2009 6:33 pm
by viebig
that´s a good idea...but at the same time I begin to think about some problems...

All WYSIWYG destroy formatting, and to get into that...the editor would understand what you ´re trying to do...

so that would not fir into a high customized site...

I see this more possible in Joomla or Drupal... since just to look the frontpage of a site.. you know it´s Joomla or Drupal(all sites looks like the same). CMSMS gives complete flexibility, and thats awesome.. but would be harder and not 100% guaranteed creating an inline editor...

May be for a few things.. or paragraphs containers.

Nothing is impossible.. but some times dont worth the bet...

That´s my thoughts..

Regards

G

Re: Why CMSMS really needs inline editing/in-place editing

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 3:44 pm
by JeremyBASS
Don't worry an inline editor is already in the works...

Here is the prototype...

http://www.screencast.com/users/jeremyB ... 9506f1c086
http://www.screencast.com/users/jeremyB ... a94a63bc51

Funding is needed if it is need to move faster... but I plan on finishing after my other mod is "done"... So the completed time is may be 2-3 months from now...

Cheers
Jeremy

Re: Why CMSMS really needs inline editing/in-place editing

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:48 pm
by viebig
Looks really cool jeremy.... I was referring about a full inline editing solution, but I would use something like you showed up.

If you need some coding help.. let me know

Regards

G

Re: Why CMSMS really needs inline editing/in-place editing

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 9:50 pm
by Pierre M.
Hello,
SeLfkiLL wrote: How should this be implemented with CMSMS?
...in one frame...
uuuUUU!?!! Frame ! Frame is Evil(TM).
Sorry, was my rant of the day.

Pierre M.

Re: Why CMSMS really needs inline editing/in-place editing

Posted: Mon Jun 15, 2009 10:17 pm
by replytomk3
A thing to ponder: will CMSMS with inline editor and frontend user registration eliminate the need for all wikis?

Re: Why CMSMS really needs inline editing/in-place editing

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:36 am
by SeLfkiLL
viebig wrote: that´s a good idea...but at the same time I begin to think about some problems...

All WYSIWYG destroy formatting, and to get into that...the editor would understand what you ´re trying to do...

so that would not fir into a high customized site...

I see this more possible in Joomla or Drupal... since just to look the frontpage of a site.. you know it´s Joomla or Drupal(all sites looks like the same). CMSMS gives complete flexibility, and thats awesome.. but would be harder and not 100% guaranteed creating an inline editor...

May be for a few things.. or paragraphs containers.

Nothing is impossible.. but some times dont worth the bet...

That´s my thoughts..

Regards

G
I agree WYSIWIG's aren't perfect but they're the next best thing to coding by hand if you don't have a lot of time or don't really know how to code to begin with. They're especially useful when you want to have some idea visually of what you're working on, in real-time as you edit.

But even if you didn't want to use a WYSIWIG editor, you could still benefit from the idea of having an inline editor. The idea is to allow quicker development directly on the page itself. Ideally, all you should have to do is browse to the actual page you want to edit, click the content and start editing it (by WYSIWYG or hand coding), then click out or save to have the page reload immediately with the new content.
JeremyBASS wrote: Don't worry an inline editor is already in the works...

Here is the prototype...

http://www.screencast.com/users/jeremyB ... 9506f1c086
http://www.screencast.com/users/jeremyB ... a94a63bc51

Funding is needed if it is need to move faster... but I plan on finishing after my other mod is "done"... So the completed time is may be 2-3 months from now...

Cheers
Jeremy
This looks pretty promising and a great start, good job! I look forward to see where this will go. Are you planning on setting up a project page for it somewhere?
Pierre M. wrote: Hello,
SeLfkiLL wrote: How should this be implemented with CMSMS?
...in one frame...
uuuUUU!?!! Frame ! Frame is Evil(TM).
Sorry, was my rant of the day.

Pierre M.
Frames are evil, tables are evil but they have their place. I suggested using frames so as to keep the user within the admin backend instead of forcing them to login and edit their site from the frontend. This way, everything is kept organized and consistent as well as having the neato idea of putting a global WYSIWIG toolbar in the top frame. Maybe this can still be done without frames but it would probably also require more work to accomplish.

Hey if phpMyAdmin uses frames then it must not be that evil.  ;)

Re: Why CMSMS really needs inline editing/in-place editing

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 4:47 am
by JeremyBASS
My2Cents... IFRAMES are evil, Framesets are not...

Anyways... Just for clarification.. The proof of concept is only doing the content area as it was phase one of the mod.. but... oh boy is there so much more planed... mod data changes... set mods inline... This will be fully loaded... your only seeing about 2 hours of work here...

@viebig: I will need some help but not at this point... I need to finish laying out the ground work that sets the tone for the mod... but I'm 10% done with that and when finished with that then I'll hit you up.. Thanks for the offer...

Cheers
jeremyBass

Re: Why CMSMS really needs inline editing/in-place editing

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:18 pm
by touchtec
Couldn't you use the { tags } facility to implement an inline editor that will only *activate* upon a user with the appropriate permissions logging in? then you could use tinyMCE on the block (pass it as an option to the { tag }) ?

Re: Why CMSMS really needs inline editing/in-place editing

Posted: Tue Jun 16, 2009 10:23 pm
by JeremyBASS
@touchtec that's is in a sense what is going on in the screen cast... thou much more indepth...  ;)

Cheers
Jeremy

Re: Why CMSMS really needs inline editing/in-place editing

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:04 am
by Deak
This looks really promising, Jeremy. Keep up the good work!

Re: Why CMSMS really needs inline editing/in-place editing

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 7:56 pm
by viebig
Jeremy

Are you developing that as a module?

Regards

G

Re: Why CMSMS really needs inline editing/in-place editing

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:04 pm
by jmcgin51
sweet!

Re: Why CMSMS really needs inline editing/in-place editing

Posted: Wed Jun 17, 2009 8:14 pm
by JeremyBASS
@viebig  Yeah the mod is called "EditMe"... I think I put it up in the forge already... I think... :D
Cheers
Jeremy

Re: Why CMSMS really needs inline editing/in-place editing

Posted: Fri Aug 28, 2009 6:00 am
by SeLfkiLL
Just an update...

I would like to demonstrate the functionality of the inline editor I had in mind to something similar to what's already been done for e.g. concrete5 or Sitefinity CMS. In both of these content management systems, you can easily view and edit all blocks on the template in real-time instead of just editing in a bunch of WYSIWIG boxes on one page. Below is a screenshot of the inline editor that Sitefinity uses, which demonstrates the simplicity and powerful functionality of such a feature.

Image

As you can see, it's basically just an overlay over a preview of that page. When you hover over a non-grayed out area, an option to edit that area appears. I honestly think that this is the way of the future for content management systems. Something like this would be pretty cool for CMSMS.