CMS Made Simple Forums

Hi There.

I have been using CMSMS for a while for general websites and it is a great system.

I am now trying to set up an ecommerce system for someone and would like to stick to CMSMS to do it, but I just cannot seem to find a working solution that will handle products, orders and payments (and VAT/TAX & Postage/Shipping).

Apart from the very obvious, there is little that I need this to do. Here are the slightly more advanced requirements:

Products:
Option menu: eg. to select size or colour which will affect the price.

Payments:
Payment via PayPal
Including fixed Tax (VAT) at 17.5%

I have tried all the solutions that I can find, and here is the problems with all of them:

eSShop:
Does not save any info, just does nothing.
Does not have any way to add different 'options' to products
Have not been able to test any more

ShopMadeSimple / CartMadeSimple
No way to have payments via paypal (PaymentMadeSimple is not complete)

Products / Cart / FRShipping / FRTaxes / Orders / PayPal Gateway (seems to be the ultimate solution...)
Should do everything that I require however...
Tax info is not passed on to PayPal (I can live with by including VAT in the product price)
Product info is not stored in the orders module (How am I supposed to know what they ordered?!)
I tried it countless times and never did it send me (the client) or me (the admin) any emails (again, how do I know what I/they ordered or even that there was an order at all?!)

So my real question is, is there anyone out there who has a CMSMS site which is an ecommerce site that takes payment through paypal?

or... if Calguy1000 is out there, how can I get the system that you (mostly) built to work?

I could live with that system if it just emailed me the information when a new order was added, but I don't get anything and although it lists the order in the Orders module, it doesn't list what was ordered.

Anyone got any ideas or opinions on this matter?

It seems to me that it isn't possible to run an ecommerce site from CMSMS at all.

Crank,

I'm currently working on PayPal as a part of Payment Made Simple. However I want to set it up flexible (read: I want to be able to have other payment gateways in the same module).
Hope you are able to wait a little while.

Duketown

[edit]April 13th, 2009
I've been able to build the Payment Made Simple module. The included PayPal gateway has not been fully tested and is not working correctly.
There are two gateways up and running iDEAL and ePay. Both are commercial gateways that I have build and you can buy from me.
If you need a specific gateway, please get in contact.
[/edit]

unfortunately not... unless you're talking less than 2 weeks!

Now I writing "quick orders" module for Products|Cart, which is not depends on frontend Users, It's just lets user fill in its contacts and send cart details to orders manager email.

When I finish, I will public that module

At the moment, I am going to use catalogue and paypal's shopping cart system.

Your system sounds good, but will it be able to accept payment and then mark on the email that the payment has been sent?

Thanks.

crank wrote:
Products / Cart / FRShipping / FRTaxes / Orders / PayPal Gateway (seems to be the ultimate solution...)
...
Tax info is not passed on to PayPal ...
Product info is not stored in the orders module ...
I tried it countless times and never did it send me (the client) or me (the admin) any emails

I also tried out these modules on the 1.3 beta.  They are new but look very promising, and with just a little more development, they should be really excellent.  But I know from my own dev work, it's always what seems like the last little bit (from "nearly ready" to "really ready") that takes so much effort; and the developers are busy with core stuff too.

To take two of Crank's points:

- The lack of order detail info is a known issue, listed in the notes.  I guess the full system needs to record not only what the line items were, but also which line items have been partly/fully dispatched.  A narrative field (per order and perhaps per line item) might also be useful, to record any order amendments etc that go beyond what the system can handle automatically.  Guess it could be argued that updates to narrative text (or indeed to item dispatch status) should trigger notification emails to admin + buyer.

- Like Crank, I also got no notification emails (although CMSMailer test messages worked). Hopefully that's a known issue too?

The integration with Captcha was nice, for protection from random bots. 

I also liked the ability to force users to register with a verified email address before proceeding (complete with a "forgot password" email function), as invalid contact details on orders can waste a lot of time.  One very minor issue: self-registration reports "User not Found" if you try to activate twice.  It should probably say "User account already activated".

PayPal sandbox payments worked, but:-

- the order status was not marked correctly (stuck on "proposed") unless the buyer returned to the CMSMS site after payment. What's really needed is PayPal IPN processing. There was some outline code for this, but it didn't seem to be finished, unless I was looking at the wrong code.

- the order details sent to PayPal were missing item attributes (e.g. clothing size) but that may be a config error on my part, or something I can tweak in the code. 

- it would be nice to be able to enter your PayPal account SSL keys, so that the item prices sent to PayPal cannot be tampered with in transit (e.g. by a buyer using a web proxy like Paros or Burp), assuming there are suitable hooks to OpenSSL from PHP.

My non-profit site uses PayPal for annual membership subscriptions. It would be nice to have the e-commerce system make this easier by collecting membership options/information before payment, integrating with PayPal IPN, and maybe managing renewal reminders and cancellations.  But perhaps these are unusual requirements.

I would really like to see this e-Commerce solution move forward - but I don't trust my PHP skills enough to help write it.  I wonder whether it might help to have a private (paid subscription) forum or mailing list for this combined set of modules, with a small annual fee (maybe 100 USD) to help give the developers *something* back for all their time, whilst providing a help/self-help facility for users?

Is there a better place to discuss this set of modules?

- Martin

Okay, after a few conversations I'll summarize the history of the Products/Cart/Orders stuff.  Please somebody let me know if I'm wrong.

Products/Cart were originally sponsored by brumalpat for a little bit of money... but for a small amount of functionality.... what she could afford.  and she contributed well, and we thank her with all of our heart.

Another client agreed to sponsor additional functionality on this chain, hence some more significant enhancements to the Products and Orders modules and the invention of the cart module.  We did this work, and wrote numerous taxation, shipping and a paypal gateway addon module, AND the orders module to implement that.  this client didn't pay.  and hence the Orders module was not completed.

After subsequent discussions and conversations, we decided that we would significantly compromise on price and finish the functionality for $1200.... this cost would be split by pat-in-wv and somebody else.... pat-in-wv contributed his share to Ted and I, but the other person hasn't yet.... this leaves $600 unpaid.  and right now, we can't recall who that other person was without going through a hella lot of IRC logs.

tyman00 then sponsored significant further modifications to the products module, and hence the Products 2.0 and 2.0.1 versions.... and tyman00 and I are quite happy with the way things worked out.

Now, pat_in_wv needs the orders module to be completed... and because he has paid his share, I will be finishing it, and releasing the finished version to him, and only to him, until such time as the rest of the funds are recuperated somehow.

After that, these modules will be enhanced on a 'pay for service' model only.  I have already had numerous people asking for enhancements to these and other modules, so this model does work.

I just thought I'd keep you informed.

Thanks for that rundown. I appreciate it.
For someone reasonably new to cmsms, this helps clarify alot of 'history' of this as yet incomplete functionality. At least I (as an end-user) can now make an informed decision as where to go from here.

Since there is history mentioned on one of the great ecommerce related modules, I would like to add the history for another solution.

Back in the old days, there was a person (lahuindai) that connected his name to the modules Shop Made Simple (SMS), Cart Made Simple (CartMS) and Payment Made Simple (PMS). The acronimes in brackets refer to the projectname in the dev.cmsmadesimple.org/projects/xxx environment.
In 2007 lahuindai started the development (again). At the end of that year I joined the development team. lahuindai worked for the major part on the SMS which contains the categories and products and related material.
I worked on the frontend of SMS, CartMS part and am currently working on PMS.
Besides donations for the manual on SMS (thanks again donators), there is no sponsorship to keep any 'smoke coming out of my chimney'.
I know there are downloads done on the modules. I take it that at least one downloader has looked at the coding and has made changes. I have not heared of any changes made by anyone of the downloaders. Nor was I, or another one in the project teams, send over the coding. As a result of this all, I'm the one that puts the functionality into place. It sounds probably as a complain, it should not. The explanations drives me to the statement: 'there is more in live, then programming modules for CMSMS'. That statement given, it gives an idea why enhancements are not made at high speed, or even will become available.
My personal/professional pride however states that the module PMS is not usable at this moment, so I want to finish that.
After that, these modules will be enhanced on a 'pay for service' model only. Yes, I take the same measurement as calguy1000 does.

By the way: the modules Products/Cart/Orders are in NO way linked to the SMS/CartMS/PMS modules. They are not compatible and can't be used next to each other (Products and SMS use the same classes internally and can't be installed next to each other).
When making remarks in the forum, please make sure that you denote the correct module and double check that you have not installed a mix of the module sets.

Duketown

I've had great luck using Mals-e shopping cart, http://www.mals-e.com. There is a free version and a premium version.

Works like a champ.

calguy1000 wrote: Okay, after a few conversations I'll summarize the history of the Products/Cart/Orders stuff.

Thank you for the information.

calguy1000 wrote: After that, these modules will be enhanced on a 'pay for service' model only.  I have already had numerous people asking for enhancements to these and other modules, so this model does work.

My main concern : do enhancements go to upstream GPL source code or are they closely kept ? Please clarify : are you describing a "bounty/sponsoring" GPLed development, consulting services on GPLed software or closed development for private modules ? (just a question, no offense)

duketown wrote: After that, these modules will be enhanced on a 'pay for service' model only. Yes, I take the same measurement as calguy1000 does.

Same question as the previous one

duketown wrote: By the way: the modules Products/Cart/Orders are in NO way linked to the SMS/CartMS/PMS modules. They are not compatible and can't be used next to each other (Products and SMS use the same classes internally and can't be installed next to each other).
When making remarks in the forum, please make sure that you denote the correct module and double check that you have not installed a mix of the module sets.

Well done to make this clear. Already in your modules documentation ?

BTW, @all : If your modules are GPLed it could be interesting to consider a merge of the overlap (for close features, same scale, almost equal use cases...) because it could group bounty payers, couldn't it ?

Pierre M. (convinced that GPLed ecosystems work)

duketown wrote:
By the way: the modules Products/Cart/Orders are in NO way linked to the SMS/CartMS/PMS modules. They are not compatible and can't be used next to each other (Products and SMS use the same classes internally and can't be installed next to each other).

This would be a super wonderful thing to note in the descriptions of the modules as they absolutely break everything if the modules are mixed up

patty,

Although I have not tested it, as of version 0.1.6 of Shop Made Simple, a check is done if the Products module is allready installed. If so installation is cancelled.
If however installed in reverse order, so first Shop Made Simple and then the Products module, you will encounter the problem.
Sorry, that has to be address by the administrator of the Products module (in my opinion).

Duketown

FYI:.....

The E-commerce solution that Ted and I have authored is undergoing an overhaul as follows:

a) The shipping and taxes modules will now be under the pervue of the Orders module.
    This means that shipping and tax information won't be available until the confirmation stage of order processing with the
    Orders module, but it is a much more organized, flexible, and expandable mechanism.
b) The Orders module is being re-writen to handle multiple different shipping addresses, and to store all information related to a single order
     in a more concise, and obvious way.
c) The Orders module will now display all information related to, and pertaining to the order without relying on the Cart module.
d) the Shipping and taxes modules are all being re-vamped to be simpler
e) the Products module has had some improvements (tying off of loose edges, bug fixes, etc).
f) a new ManyBaskets module is being written to support shipping different items to different people with a single payment
g) _SjG_ is writing a new payment gateway module
h) a new shipping module that allows calculating shipping costs based on a range of the pre-tax total order cost.
i) The cart module(s) now automatically increment quantities if the attributes of the selected item are the same.
j) The cart module(s) now have a smarter API, to make integration with other modules easier
k) Module templates are now easier to modify and style
l)  Module dependencies are being re-analyzed.
m) More.

This will result in a release of 9 or more modules relating to the e-commerce suite, at the same time.  Resulting in an extremely flexible, plug-and-play e-commerce solution for CMS Made Simple.

I'll keep you posted.

if there is going to be 9 +  any chance you could name them store_WhatEver... , I mean to put some prefix on them... it's hard enough remembering which go to which now... at least they will be located next to each other in the download etc...  just a thought IMHO.. have a great one
jeremyBass