Clearer Instructions on How to post on this Board? Topic is solved

[Bob]

Hi all (Users, Developers, and Guests of CMS Made Simple),

I'm a graphic designer (print) for a small publication co, and as such, the job of designing web sites has been thrown into my lap. I now have a working knowledge of HTML and CSS out of necessity so I can build and design the websites for the company (which makes me a more valuable asset to to my employer considering the dieing trend of print publications).  Before CMSMS, I've used basic HTML and CSS, PHPbb2 and some related Portal progs, as well as some other CMS progs.  Around 2006, I discovered CMS Made Simple through a website that had links and demos of various CMS progs, and found that it was the best of all the CMS's I've tried. I was sold!(well, it's free... but you know what I mean) I learned a lot about templates and attached CSS used in CMSMS, and some of the great modules. Sure it doesn't do everything I want it to, but I saw the potential. And a dynamic menu system was perfect for where I work. Awesome prog!

And, in the past, anytime I had hit a snag, I knew I could count on some great help/support from either a Developer or someone who had a lot more experience with CMSMS, with a courteous and friendly reply (like Ted, Mark, Cyberguy... kudos to you and many others)  Even if it took a few days or more (which I totally understand). And to this day, I still love using CMSMS, and I try to suggest it to others who build/design websites, providing it can do what they need it to do.

HOWEVER, it seems within the past year or so, as I search throughout this Forum, looking for answers before I post a question, or just to see other questions that I never thought to ask, (and then learned from,) I've noticed a disturbing trend. Some replies have been condescending, crass, snide (or snotty), what-have-you, even from some of the DEVs/power Moderators. I suggest that if a Developer does not want to deal with  "newb" questions, he/she should just stay off the board and stick with the Dev stuff.

As an Art Director, I don't deal with clients and their questions, I deal with the Sales Reps... and for good reason; if I dealt with the customers, the publication I work for would lose more advertisers (which is why we have sales reps... to sell the product with a smile) I'm not in the business to teach the clients how to design an ad or learn Photoshop... I provide them the specs, and it's up to the client to provide a printable ad (or the material I need so I can have an ad designed for them).
So I can understand the frustration of some of the DEV's at CMSMS in regards to the questions posted... But it doesn't excuse some of the responses I've seen posted here on the CMSMS Forum and boards. I think a simple referral/ link to another relative post would be suffice, particularly if it's a recurring question. I think some of the moderatoers/devs could lighten up on their 'tude, so-to-speak.

Aside from that, posts (mine for instance) have been moved to other boards without notice (albeit, in hind-sight, I can see why a couple of them would be relocated). So maybe some clarification as to "what" should be posted and "where" might be helpful. And Yes, I have read the "Guidelines" and the various "Stickies".  For instance, my post to "Product Support" was in regards to how I can use a popular gallery program in CMSMS... seems like a logical question... "how do I use this particular prog in your CMS?" I searched through your Forum as well as the forum of the gallery prog, and, finally, I think i solved it, BUT, none-the-less, my post, which might be helpful, got moved to "The Lounge" (What is the purpose of the "The Lounge" anyhow?) Was it not a possible solution for someone using a piece of programming (in my case using Slide Show Pro) in your CMS that might be relevant in Product Support?

In so far as the Modules, some of the "help" info is not all that clear, so I'll go to the wiki and forum, and again, look for help. I "search" the Forum first, and maybe I'm not using the right "keyword", but I do try to generalize it enough to get the most results. Not-for-nothing, I do try to post my questions based on where I found other questions that I thought relevant to my questions, yet my posts are relocated without notice. (I'm sure this post will get relocated if not deleted anyhow)

So, to get to the original point of this post (based on my subject heading), maybe the Post rules and descriptions should be clearer? What is "General Discussion?" What is "The Lounge"? What is "Product Support"?... and the differences between the 3 I mentioned? For all I know, "The Lounge" could be a place for me to vent my anger towards the GW Bush and the Republican Party, The NHL, the Star Wars Prequels, or why I hate Country Music... all of which is not related to CMSMS.

As mentioned in other posts,  the name did (and still does) say "Made Simple".  along with something regarding a holiday type slogan (I see that's gone though)

"CMS Made Simple provides a fast and easy way to create a web site and manage its contents. Use it to make a home page for your family -- or your multinational corporation!"

I understand that might be a stretch, but if you want to keep people who have enjoyed and want to utilize CMSMS, and spread the word, some of your DEV's/Moderators might want to be little more friendlier (again, lose the attitude)...

OR if you want to get new users that conform to some of the DEV's expectations, you might want to re-consider the name of your program.

Well, it's just a though from this "NewB"

[Pierre M.]

Hello Bob,

...So I can understand the frustration of some of the DEV's at CMSMS in regards to the questions posted... But it doesn't excuse some of the responses I've seen posted here on the CMSMS Forum and boards. I think a simple referral/ link to another relative post would be suffice, particularly if it's a recurring question. I think some of the moderatoers/devs could lighten up on their 'tude, so-to-speak.

Feel free to post the "simple referral/ link to another relative post" which "would be suffice, particularly if it's a recurring question". Every forum user can participate helping each other even if some of the Support Team (or even the Dev Team) are grumpy. This is less than 100 post a day.

A shared work needs less manpower. You understand the frustration of 3 un-rules-respectfull posts taking 50% of the time to answer 97 others ; I'm sure you understand rude attitude is exception. Teams donate time and time can't be given back.

BTW, hint : search the boards with Google (using its "site" operator).

Have fun with CMSms

Pierre M.

[calguy1000]

As an Art Director, I don't deal with clients and their questions, I deal with the Sales Reps... and for good reason; if I dealt with the customers, the publication I work for would lose more advertisers (which is why we have sales reps... to sell the product with a smile) I'm not in the business to teach the clients how to design an ad or learn Photoshop... I provide them the specs, and it's up to the client to provide a printable ad (or the material I need so I can have an ad designed for them).
So I can understand the frustration of some of the DEV's at CMSMS in regards to the questions posted... But it doesn't excuse some of the responses I've seen posted here on the CMSMS Forum and boards. I think a simple referral/ link to another relative post would be suffice, particularly if it's a recurring question. I think some of the moderatoers/devs could lighten up on their 'tude, so-to-speak.

Okay, you don't deal with clients... because you would lose more advertisers.... but yet, you expect us to put up with the repeated, lazy people that can't do searches, can't provide information relevent to their concerns, or answer the most basic of questions.  That doesn't make sense.

We have documentation, yes it's sparse... we have a well documented, well explained, and well organized forum... where massive amounts of questions have been asked and answered repeatedly in almost every imaginable way, and yet people can't read the documentation (hell some people can't even find the 'documentation' link below 'support' in the menu at the top of this page), can't do a simple search and can't read the simple forum rules that are listed under 'README FIRST'  here http://forum.cmsmadesimple.org/index.php, and yet many of these people call themselves 'web developers'.  Patience has limits.

The reason I started being more terse is I was tired of the repeated questions, the lack of description (why should I instantaneously have to ask a question to get information when somebody is asking for help and when the instructions are clearly posted). and the lack of research (how can somebody call themselves a web developer, charging money for creating websites for their clients with a CMS package if they don't know what an error log is).  The Signal-to-noise ratio was getting way too low.  Because of this, many of the developers, including the guy that pays for the bandwidth, have severely restricted their time in the channel because they view it as a 'wasteland'.  That is very sad.

I viewed it a different way, and decided to try to clean it up.  To enforce a few rules, and try to teach people something.  We're not here to teach people HTML, Apache, IIS, Unix, Windows, CSS, PHP. or even smarty.  IMHO We're here to help people who decide to use our package to maybe learn something new, how to take advantage of the package, and how to learn learn their way around our package, so that they can learn to develop a website quickly and 'simply.  Also, IMHO to teach them to think and look for themselves.  Because that's what CMS allows you to do.

If I get terse in a post, or delete a post, or lock a post or move a post, well... that means that the person that originally posted (or a follower) couldn't bother to spend the time to read the rules (sometimes even when reminded).  If that person can't spend the time to read the rules, and spend the time to post a well worded, thoughtful, contextual, and researched response, then why should we spend the time and/or bandwidth supporting them. 

Additionally, I don't get to every post, I try my best to treat all of the posts equally, but if I miss some here or there, don't accuse me of being unfair.  I have no preferences.

Can you name another forum where people are allowed to post what they want without following rules?  I can't. 

I don't feel guilty about what I have done.  Infact, some of the other forum moderators are starting to do the same thing.  I've deleted hundreds of spam posts, banned dozens of spammers, deleted hundreds of posts about 'how do I create a database' or 'where are my error logs' or other such crud that just gets in the way of our valued users finding information that they need.  IMHO the service of deleting, moving, closing posts is a 'value add', and hopefully some of the developers that do most of the work with this product will start to come back and provide support.

Regarding changing the motto and biline, etc, yes... we've discussed this, and realized it, but haven't gotten there yet.  CMS is Simple for me, and for a large amount of other people.  It's not intended to be a replacement for FrontPage or Word, it's directed at professional web developers that know what they want, have recognized a good tool when they see it, know the output that they want and just want an easy, manageable, maintainable, enhancable, and scalable way of doing it for their customers.