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[Solved]Product Module has stopped producing thumbnails
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Author:  jasnick [ Tue Jun 17, 2014 2:06 am ]
Post subject:  [Solved]Product Module has stopped producing thumbnails

Using CMSMS 1.11.10 and modules all up to date

Product Module: Client reported no images being uploaded. I checked and found the large images were uploaded but the thumbnails were not being created. This has been working correctly for a long while now and suddenly is not working. He has not changed anything.
In the editing page - Fields: all 9 images as in pic.

'http://sitename - missing image in middle of page and it follows also all 9 are missing in detail page.

Is there anything that might have caused this to happen and how can it be corrected.


File comment: No images to be seen
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Author:  Dr.CSS [ Tue Jun 17, 2014 4:48 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Product Module has stopped producing thumbnails

The upgraded Products module no longer makes thumbs, work around is to first tell the system to make them on upload for future images then open the folders in Image Manager and it should make them for you then in products you can use the thumbnail call for the images in the product templates...

Author:  jasnick [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 12:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Product Module has stopped producing thumbnails

Thanks Dr.CSS
Dr.CSS wrote:
The upgraded Products module no longer makes thumbs

That must have been a recent innovation as the client was happily getting them a couple of weeks ago. Anyway, nice to know now and I will do as you say.
Dr.CSS wrote:
first tell the system to make them on upload for future images
- that was one of the first things I did yesterday.
The thumbnails are already being called in the templates.
Currently there is no Products folder in Image Manager as the images have been added directly to Products. Does this mean setting up a new folder in Image Manager and uploading there first?

Author:  jasnick [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:31 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Product Module has stopped producing thumbnails

I can't see how to get the (thumbnail) images into products. When browsing for images, it opens the user's computer, not Image Manager. The Help notes still say thumbnails are automatically generated.

I see that the latest version of Products was released on 31 May 2014. Admin Log shows I upgraded CGExtensions to 1.38.11, CGSimpleSmarty to 1.7.3, Products to 2.20.3 and CGSmartImage to 1.16.2 on 9 June. This would have been the result of a general check to see if there were newer modules and not because the client had a problem.

The Admin Log shows that after this upgrading nothing was done on the site except for some logging in and out as at this stage Products was not showing thumbnails.

Author:  calguy1000 [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Product Module has stopped producing thumbnails

The upgraded Products module no longer makes thumbs

This is incorrect.
Though the changelog states that the generation of thumbnails is DEPRECATED the functionality is still there. There could however be a bug.

Now. Although given the proper steps to reproduce the issue (and not just hand waving) I will fix the bug... it is still better to start moving away from static thumbnails to using CGSmartImage to generate thumbnails on demand from the parent images.

Author:  jasnick [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Product Module has stopped producing thumbnails

calguy1000 - Thank you very much. Yes, I agree about using CGSmartImage for the future.

It is a while since I set up this site and it is the only one I have using Products so I am not too familiar with it (Products). I do recall that I did try to use CGSmartImage at one stage,
for example in the Summary Template:

{if isset($pagecount) && $pagecount gt 1}
{$firstlink} {$prevlink}  {$pagetext} {$curpage} {$oftext} {$pagecount}  {$nextlink} {$lastlink}
{foreach from=$items item=entry}

  <div class="product_detail_field1">
<ul><li><a href="{$entry->detail_url}">{$entry->product_name}
 <img src='{$entry->file_location}/{$entry->fields.Photo1->thumbnail}' width='180' alt='' />
 {* CGSmartImage src1=$entry->file_location src2=$entry->fields.Photo1->value width='180' *}

I see I have commented out the CGSmartImage bit because I suppose it didn't work.
I do appreciate the help. Thank you.

Author:  velden [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:26 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Product Module has stopped producing thumbnails

I think you forget to use a filter.

Example below I use for a website. Note that images are cropped (not resized) and it uses some logic to display a default image when none is provided with product.

<img width="710" height="710" src="{if !empty($entry->fields.afbeelding->value)}{CGSmartImage src1=$entry->file_location src2=$entry->fields.afbeelding->value filter_croptofit='710,710,c,1' notag=1}{else}{uploads_url}/template/shopen/images/no_product_image.png{/if}" class="" alt="" />

Read the module's help to learn about the possible filter_xxx filters.

Author:  jasnick [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:41 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Product Module has stopped producing thumbnails

Thanks velden

Yes, I see I need to use the "filter" expression - I overlooked that in the past. I will need filter_resize='w,180' for the thumbnail version.

I have been reading up on the GCSmartImage help - will need to study it some more. I need to resize rather than crop. Each product has up to 10 images that I need to resize to a thumbnail and also to a larger version of the thumbnail - all from the too-large version my client uploads.


Author:  velden [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:48 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Product Module has stopped producing thumbnails

That shouldn't be a problem at all.

Author:  jasnick [ Wed Jun 18, 2014 7:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Product Module has stopped producing thumbnails

I wish -I'm not very technical but I'll experiment!

Author:  jasnick [ Thu Jun 19, 2014 9:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Product Module has stopped producing thumbnails

Did some research on the background to this site (last year sometime) and recall now that Dr.CSS did some work on this and we discovered that CGSmartImage did not work on iPhones, which is why it was removed. Client uses an iPhone so had no option.

This does not explain however why the Products module has stopped creating thumbnails.
calguy1000 wrote:
Now. Although given the proper steps to reproduce the issue (and not just hand waving) I will fix the bug

As this suggested to me that it might be a bug, I submitted a bug report that was not well received. Not being a programmer, just a fairly plain website designer using CMSMS, I simply re-iterated my original post that uploading images from the Fields page in Products did not produce thumbnails as it was doing a few weeks ago before I upgraded the module. I was told this was the wrong module, insufficient information and I need to provide details - hand waving is not sufficient.

I'm afraid calguy1000 is very angry with me. I am not sure how much more explicit I can be or why it is the wrong module. I thought I was supplying the required information. Sorry, calguy1000.

I can understand programmers getting fed up with non-programmers trying to use CMSMS - which is not as simple as the name suggests - but not sure what I can do here to help get my client's problem solved.


Author:  velden [ Thu Jun 19, 2014 1:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Product Module has stopped producing thumbnails

I don't understand why it wouldn't work on iPhone. That does not make sense as CGSI works server side.

However, it uses some techniques to check for mobile devices and resizes images for that devices display. That can be disabled.

Author:  calguy1000 [ Thu Jun 19, 2014 6:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Product Module has stopped producing thumbnails

I am not angry at you specifically. But you are an example of a very common problem. You submitted a copy/paste of the original article of this thread (reporting an apparent problem in the Products module) into the wrong area of the forge modules support forum. There was no additional information (site information, configuration options, no steps to reproduce, nothing). If you give me garbage, then yes... you will get garbage back. It happens very often.

I can understand programmers getting fed up with non-programmers trying to use CMSMS - which is not as simple as the name suggests

We never said it was simple for the site developer. It's simple for the end user (your customer) to use.

BEGIN RANT (aimed at a lot of people (though not all), and nobody in particular).

Now.... you as a site developer are supposed to be a professional. That means that you have skills beyond just writing HTML into a WYSIWYG editor. or even basic CSS. Any 10 year old can do that. Also, it means that you have a basic understanding that in order to get assistance you need to provide something whether that be information, or money. Also, if you don't have all of the information you need... as a professional, you expand upon your skills and spend some of your time learning and finding that information so that you can get timely and meaningful assistance without wasting your time, your customers, or anybody elses.

Analogy time:
You can't phone up or email your auto mechanic, spend a couple of hours giving him vague descriptions of a problem and expect a free solution. He will need all kinds of information, and probably to take a look at the vehicle. And he will also expect some type of compensation for his time. If you are lucky in that your brother in law is an auto mechanic you may be able to just bring over a case of beer, and buy dinner... but if you take it to a repair shop you will need to fork out cash. The same thing applies with computer systems. Just because the system and modules are open source and free to download does not mean in any way that my time is free.

Bug Reports
Bug reports are intended to be reports of reproducible issues that are considered to be software defects. They are not PROBLEM reports or SUPPORT REQUEST forms... that's what the forum is for. If you can reproduce the issue, and can tell me exactly how to reproduce it, and you think it is a flaw in the software then that is what bug reports are for. Not: '<hand waving> I'm having a problem, please help me</hand waving>' or 'I can't get this thing to work', or 'What does "Permission denied" mean, or a thousand other stupid things. they are specifically for reproducible software defects. Just because you have a problem with one module on one host does not immediately mean that there is a software defect.

Additionally, post in ENGLISH, in complete sentences, and try to keep the typos to a minimum (I know this is difficult for people who's native language is not english.... but you can't expect me to try to understand farsi either). If the post is gibberish, or in another language it either gets ignored (on the forum) or closed (forge). If you include screenshots etc. make sure they are well illustrated and in English... I'm sorry, i also don't read Japanese.

This is free software, and this software is put out without warranty of any kind. It also does not come with free support. Though I do appreciate that people use my software, and try to help to the best of my ability and patience, I am in no way obliged to do so. If you want assistance from me (or anybody actually) you need to respect that my time is just as valuable as yours. This means that you give me exact instructions as to how to reproduce the software with ALL of the details. and also you have to be patient.

Merely specifying 'latest version of CMSMS and all modules up to date' is in no way providing enough details. If that little bit of information was enough for you last time consider yourself lucky. Assume when you submit a bug report in the forge, or a problem in the forum that you have at the very most 5 minutes of my time to reproduce an issue, and that my environment may not be exactly the same as yours, or that my environment may be configured to use different software, or use the same software in a different way.

added: Often you have only a few seconds to get my attention when an issue is reported. It needs to be well researched, well explained, and easily reproducible, or it will get ignored and/or closed.

added: Also assume that I won't read it on the day you post it, or remember the brief conversation you may have had with me or somebody else in IRC, the forum or some other chat/messaging protocol. I may not get to your message today, tomorrow, or next week.

I specifically want exact details as to how to setup an environment where the problem re-occurs. This includes all and any options and settings that may influence the behavior. If it works fine for you on two sites, but not on a third... then you need to do more digging before you submit a bug report. Does it happen on different servers? have you done basic diagnosis issues like enabling/checking your error logs and understanding what they say?

sub rant about error logs,
I have 'solved' many bug reports issued by people without sufficient information just to find out that they 'had no access to error logs' or didn't know how to find them, or couldn't read them. And the issue turned out to be a permissions issue or an 'out of disk space issue',or some other system issue, Not issues directly related to my code. Those are a huge waste of time. edit and a complete lack of professionalism on their part.

back on topic
Additionally, the system info page in CMSMS was written as a convenient means for people needing assistance to provide a starting point for the information we need. Sometimes this is enough information, often it is not. Don't think that this is ALL of the information you need to provide. edit More often than not, this isn't even provided. Often I feel we might as well delete this code from the core.

I am no longer willing to politely request for days the basic information that should be provided for each and every bug report or forum post. or to teach people how to do it. If you don't know, find out. It is not my problem (I have enough problems). I am now just ignoring forum posts without a reasonable amount of basic information or an attempt to provide it... and I close bug reports. I don't have the time or patience to deal with half baked crap, or to teach people stuff that they as professionals should either know, or know how to find out on their own.

I am also no longer willing to go on fishing expeditions spending hours of my time trying to reproduce problems just to find out it's due to some bad configuration option somewhere, a bad upload, an old version, or worse yet.... because somebody hacked the code and it caused problems down the road that they were not aware of at the time. I have encountered all of those situations, many many times.

Also, don't bother reporting issues where I have to setup some windows or mac environment, specific hosting requirements, or on specific mobile phones or tablets. Though I am willing to fix issues that I can reasonably easily reproduce and identify, and have the time to fix.. I am not willing to spend thousands of dollars on hardware to solve issues and I'm allergic to Microsoft products. It's back to spending your time efficiently, and not wasting mine.

Due to the countless permutations and combinations of options, configurations, and uses for the various modules it can take a couple of hours (or more) just to setup an environment to try to reproduce an issue. (i.e: to create a new install of CMSMS, extract and install the modules, create categories, create sample data, setup summary, detail templates, setup pretty URLS, upload images) is a considerable investment of time. Your bug report has to be worth it.

Next: I don't just drop what I'm doing and put aside a paid project, or stop work on my house or car, or socializing with my family just because somebody submits a bug report. I try to fix bugs at the next time I revisit the module for some reason. It could be months before I revisit the module. And sometimes I don't fix bugs even then, if I can't understand them, or can't reproduce them easily (see the 5 minute rule above).

The above issues and complaints apply to all open source packages. Not just content management systems. Also, don't think for a moment that this is an issue specific to me or CMSMS alone. There are lots of articles on the interweb about people providing crap information when trying to get support. Also, take a look for a second at the number of unanswered posts on various support forums, or stackoverflow etc.

Sometimes when somebody is experiencing a problem, and wants quick assistance for a critical problem they can get a hold of me via email (if I haven't responded to you, don't worry, you aren't the only one). If the issue is critical enough (to me) and explained well enough (see the 5 minute rule), and I have the cycles to donate to the issue then I may respond. If you offer to pay, I will most likely respond within a few days.

If you hire somebody that is not me (or the appropriate module author) to fix a problem, then you will have to maintain those fixes throughout the lifetime of the site. Unless you send a properly formatted and completely explained patch request....then the I (or the module author) have the option to accept that patch into the code stream. If I accept it, I will support it for some time. At least until the module goes through some major change that negates the need for that patch/functionality (in my opinion).

A word to the wise, though I personally have in the past accepted patches.... I don't do it very often. It largely depends on the patch and who it's coming from. I have to trust the developer, and agree with the patch (both its style and function), and whether it is in (more or less) my code style, and a few other factors.

Summary: If you expect me to spend my time helping you, and you want it free then you will need to
a: Need to provide sufficient specific instructions as to how to reproduce the issue exactly.
b: Make sure it's not a system specific issue (wrong PHP version, out of disk space, out of memory, permissions, the list goes on).
c: Be patient
d: added behave professionally.
e: added The more time you spend identifying, reproducing, isolating, and describing the problem increases the likelihood that I will look into it.

If you are willing to pay to expedite the issue, then drop me an email with a description as to how to reproduce the issue on your site.... a login/password to a CMSMS admin account (and the appropriate URLS) and SSH access (please no FTP creds) to your environment and I will be all too happy to help you out, and bill you my hourly rate.

There are some people (and the list is confidential, and changes)... that it doesn't matter what they report, or what the problem is... I'll ignore it and/or close it. I hope they move away from CMSMS, but pity the wordpress or frontpage support people when they do. Hope you are not one of these people... (jasnick, you are not on that list).


Thanks for your time.

Author:  jasnick [ Sun Jun 22, 2014 1:11 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Product Module has stopped producing thumbnails

Just to wrap this up, the problem was caused by a minor issue with a variable not being set properly in CGExtensions due to some enhancements made recently.

Thanks calguy1000

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