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Multi-Language Websites Poll
https://forum.cmsmadesimple.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=58214
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Author:  calguy1000 [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 6:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Multi-Language Websites Poll

The 'multi-lang' question has frequently been a heated debate in the CMSMS user community. There are and have been numerous solutions for implementing multi-language websites in CMSMS. These range from an unauthorized (and discontinued) fork of CMSMS to add-on modules, to several 'how-to' guides that illustrate multi-lang solutions without added modules or core modifications. Particularly however, the multi-lang debate is about how many people need a multilang solution. What percentage of the CMSMS target audience need to develop multi-language websites as a regular portion of their work? This statistic just doesn't exist. Until now we've used ad-hoc methods of estimating demand based on downloads of the various multi-lang solutions vs. downloads of CMSMS.

So to answer this important question, we've put together a very simple poll. Only 3 options. So that we can attempt to gather as clean and accurate of a statistic as possible.

Because this has historically been a hot debate in the CMSMS community, and in order to keep the topic professional and the statistics as accurate as possible, The following rules will be enforced:
a: Only community members with 10 or more posts in the CMSMS forums will be able to vote.
b: Members can only vote once on the topic. Vote changing will not be permitted. So vote carefully.
c: Comments on this poll, or about this topic in general will be heavily moderated so that we can keep the communication as professional as possible.
d: The poll will run for 30 days, after which the entire topic will be locked. The CMSMS Dev team will then discuss the results of this poll and consider what it means to us.

Even if a large percentage of users state the need for multi-language capabilities, this will not in any way indicate that the CMSMS Dev Team will put multi-language capabilities in the core. However it may mean altering our priorities so that we take various steps to make creating multi-lang websites in CMSMS 'Simpler'.

Author:  Mieszko [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Multi-Language Websites Poll

ok voted first option.

My favourite would be something similar to Jeremy Bass' LangOps where you would have a side-by-side translation.

I tend to have sites with 20+ pages in 3 or more languages where I need to change the order of branches from time to time. With a multiple-tree system this is very confusing to do.

Author:  Eric Pesser [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Multi-Language Websites Poll

Hi,

As a Belgian web developer, I very often get multi-language requirements (up to 5 languages for the same website).

Mainly, for each page:
- own title, url metadata, content, etc etc.
- all pages are not in all languages

I first implemented using 1 cms per language (the only way to avoid forks and to meet all my requirements). BUT, it's not easy to maintain, user has to log into each instance to update his site.

So now that we have MleCMS extension, it's much easier. For me the best solution for multi-language web sites. Great for websites with the same pages for each languages.

I can understand that it's highly difficult to make one solution that is good for all CMSMS multi-language sites!

Author:  korpirkor [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 7:58 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Multi-Language Websites Poll

My solution for multilanguage frontend is quite simple:
Just create section headers called:
pl/
en/
no/
fr/
Then I add User Tag called "get_root_page_alias" (you can google for it), in template use it like this:
Code:
{get_root_page_alias assign="language"}{if $language!="pl"}coĊ›tam{elseif $language!="pl"}something{elseif ...}...{/if}

{* And menu: *}

{menu childrenof=$language}


For simple sites it is enough but CMS MS really SHOULD have multilanguage by default. 70% of pages I made have at least two languages. In my opinion most of non-English-language developers think the same.



Regards, Cezary Daniel Nowak

Author:  Eric Pesser [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Multi-Language Websites Poll

calguy1000 wrote:
a: Only community members with 10 or more posts in the CMSMS forums will be able to vote.

I'm more active on the french community as "heriquet", is it ok for voting on this "org" poll?

Author:  kendo451 [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Multi-Language Websites Poll

I find the MLE Module meets my requirements for Multi-lang sites quite well.

Author:  Solutic [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 8:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Multi-Language Websites Poll

As a Swiss guy (4 official languages... + english) I often need multilingual capabilities, as for regular content, or "moduled" content.

So if CMSMS supports multi-language by default, it would be a great plus for me.

Author:  scelle [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Multi-Language Websites Poll

I work in a Serbian language area, and often have to create multilingual websites. Anyway, this should be a standard feature for a great CMS. That-s my opinion, at least...

Author:  Essie [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:21 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Multi-Language Websites Poll

As a bi-linguist, the only reason why I mostly create websites with one language on CMS is because it is too much hassle for me to create a website with both languages (ie, set up two directory folders, creating and using user tag codes, etc). I have tried before embedding language pages within the same website using CMSmadesimple but it just did not work out well. So for years, I only use CMSmadeSimple for creating English site and Wordpress for multilingual site. Wordpress makes my life much easier in terms organization and processing when creating multilingual sites.

I wish CMSmadeSimple includes the capability to create multi-language web pages. It will make this script even better and appeal to webmasters with diverse needs. :D

Let's face it, most people nowadays are fluent in at least two languages so it is no surprise that there are people who prefer to communicate in more than 1 languages on their websites. That is my two cents opinion.

Author:  boby [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Multi-Language Websites Poll

I mostly have to setup multi-language sites, the language of the country more English at least.
I'm working with babel, which is fine, but we we never know how long a module will be maintained.

SUBDOMAINs
It would be great to have each language pointing to a subdomain.

Great idea this poll!

Author:  gocreative [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Multi-Language Websites Poll

Just an aside to this poll: The results will probably not be particularly accurate because most of the people interested in a multi-language poll will be those who DO create websites in multiple languages. So I think you're going to find this data is heavily skewed.

Ultimately I think a better idea would be to create a survey which includes question about various topics, as you'll get a much broader range of responses.

Just my two cents.

As for the actual poll question, in instances where my clients have required multiple languages, I've simple added Google Translate to the footer. But I can also see why it would be very helpful if multiple languages for content was available on the back end.

Author:  dmagill [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 9:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Multi-Language Websites Poll

Hey,

Thanks for taking the time guys.

I am a developer in Norther Ontario, everything is English and French. It is rare that I develope anything with a single language.

Thanks again.

D

Author:  calguy1000 [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Multi-Language Websites Poll

Quote:
Ultimately I think a better idea would be to create a survey which includes question about various topics, as you'll get a much broader range of responses.


You are correct. However, the drawback is the more questions that are asked the more the results are open to interpretation. With a single 3 or 4 option question we hope to answer a single, simple question. What percentage of our user base 'needs' a multi-language solution.

Remember people, the results of this poll does not guarantee (or exclude) a multi-language solution in the CMSMS core. For that to happen, the people that actually do the work has to have buy in. They have to be willing to implement it, test it, and support it, and all of the accompanying complications. Then, the options analyzed, tests developed and analyzed in our test envrionments, etc. Only then could it be placed on the 'todo list' and prioritized according to all the other things that they want to do or need to be done, and the available time.

Author:  gocreative [ Sun Nov 27, 2011 10:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Multi-Language Websites Poll

calguy1000 wrote:
Quote:
Ultimately I think a better idea would be to create a survey which includes question about various topics, as you'll get a much broader range of responses.


You are correct. However, the drawback is the more questions that are asked the more the results are open to interpretation.

Sorry, I should have been clearer. What I meant was that the survey might be about a range of topics. You could still ask this poll question exactly 'as is' within that survey to gather your data. It's just that you'd get more responses (or at least responses from a greater range of users - not skewed towards those who have an interest in multi-languages) from a survey than a single poll. You would also then be able to gather more specific data such as user locations, languages spoken, skills etc to help improve the software as a whole. Anyway, just a suggestion.

Author:  joecannes [ Mon Nov 28, 2011 2:42 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Multi-Language Websites Poll

Every job I do with CMSMS used the CMS MLE module that was managed in the past by Alby.

The last working version of that module worked with CMSMS 1.8.2, and unfortunately, all my clients are stuck on that version, and I cannot upgrade them. (I even have Government of Canada websites running CMSMS MLE)

I have seen other ways of handling MLE websites, and though very creative, it is hard in the business world to convince a client to recreate their site after a 6 month period.

CMSMS MLE was a great way to handle an MLE site, and unfortunately, I have not seen a better solution come up. Especially when dealing with novice clients, it was very easy to explain to them how to use CMSMS. I've even wrote up mini guides on how to use CMSMS MLE for novice users.

Even though I love using CMSMS, because of the lack of MLE support, I am forced to once again look into Wordpress, more specifically, the WPML plugin for wordpress (http://wpml.org/).

If you guys are looking to add some new sort of MLE feature to CMSMS, the WPML plugin is a good base to look at as well (i.e. on how they have structured Wordpress to work as an MLE cms).

Thanks, hope what I said makes sense,

JC

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