2.3 news ?

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pierrepercee
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2.3 news ?

Post by pierrepercee »

203 days since the last modification on the SVN for 2.3. We can admit a certain amount of nervousness for agencies using CMSMS and for their clients...It's probably time to communicate a little about future developments. Here, I think that many of us see the same communication policy being put in place that led to the situation we are in now.
arnoud
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Re: 2.3 news ?

Post by arnoud »

Even more, > 240 days. Commits don't lie on 2020-02-12 Calguy wrote:

Code: Select all

Gives version 2.3 a name (Denmark)
Update changelog.
and rename the 2.3-beta10 directory to 2.3
almost ready to cut the final release.
http://viewsvn.cmsmadesimple.org/log.ph ... 61&isdir=1

As 2.3 beta tester I agree "almost ready to cut the final release". The changes done in this new version are good, beta-tested for a long time and well thought out, but the majority of the core team decided to delay or not release.

For the 2.2.x version maintenance is done, but I don't see any motion towards a 2.3 release.
Overtime it will get hard to commit 2.2.x changes to 2.3.x or visa versa.
Maybe the core team will cherry pick from 2.3 and implement parts "they" like into 2.2.x, or the 2.3 baby will be thrown out with the bathwater.

Anyhow the cmsms "community" is and will be by-passed.

I can only speculate and give opinions but they won't make a difference.
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Jo Morg
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Re: 2.3 news ?

Post by Jo Morg »

@pierrepercee : https://www.cmsmadesimple.org/2020/03/A ... rona-Virus
There was this announcement and respective newsletter and we are at this point making the final decisions regarding the roadmap moving forward.
arnoud wrote: Fri Oct 09, 2020 11:16 am Anyhow the cmsms "community" is and will be by-passed.

I can only speculate and give opinions but they won't make a difference.
@arnoud: And that is precisely what you are doing.... speculating. You are part of the community, but you alone are not the community. We have been listening to the community as a whole. All opinions are valid. And because all opinions are valid we will be moving, as much was we can, given the current state of core development, towards our perception of the community needs.
We will be posting a new announcement as soon as we are ready to commit to the roadmap we are preparing.
Thank you.
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* by the way: English is NOT my native language (sorry for any mistakes...).
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DIGI3
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Re: 2.3 news ?

Post by DIGI3 »

I thought this was pretty clear: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=82258 but I'm sorry if you don't feel I was communicating well enough. I spend several hours a day replying to forum posts, chatting in Slack (public and Dev Team) and responding to emails from users, sponsors, and developers. I do listen to the community. I have listened to your comments Arnoud, and have engaged with you directly. I've agreed with some of your comments, and disagreed with others - as is normal in any project.

The 2.3 beta, as it was published, had more problems than we were comfortable with. Some users and developers felt it was exactly the way we should be going, but many, many more felt we were going down a path that would alienate them. We sent out surveys, we talked to users, and we tested with our own projects. Once all the feedback was compiled, we had countless hours of discussion and debate, and democratically decided that, as it stood, the 2.3 beta was not the correct path. We will take as many of the good parts of it as we can and implement them in future releases - some in point releases as we're doing now, and some in a major release - might be 2.3, might be 3.0, we're still working on a proper roadmap (something we didn't have for the 2.3 beta).

Yes, this path may not be what YOU want, but that doesn't mean we're ignoring you. As I tell my child, disagreeing with you is not the same as disregarding you. As a community member you are welcome to contribute feedback and suggestions, and now that the Dev Team is moving to a more open approach, we're hoping to make it easier for the community to contribute more directly as well. Ultimately those volunteering their time to participate directly in the Dev Team will get to make the final decisions on the direction the project takes - this doesn't make it an autocracy, we don't sit in our ivory towers making decisions that only benefit ourselves - a project can't exist without a support mechanism.

I hope you come to realize that the dozen or so people volunteering hours and hours of time are doing it for you. Nobody gets paid to support CMSMS, nobody gets to single-handedly make decisions on the direction. Everything is discussed and voted upon. In the past year we have doubled-down on this and made significant changes to how the Dev Team works to make sure it's more democratic, that no one person can make the project only what they want it to be.

We want the project to succeed as much as you do, and your implication that we don't listen or care is personally insulting.
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arnoud
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Re: 2.3 news ?

Post by arnoud »

2.3 was always presented as the next move and being based on the survey results collected way before 2.3 development started. It was not that 2.3 was an experiment or side-project where the outcome would be valued later and the survey was about 2.3.

In my eyes 2.3 was a serious project, 10 beta test cycles and a call to module- and theme- developers to port software for the upcoming release. Nowhere during the beta tests I have seen or heard any concerns of 2.3 going a step to far. During the beta-test multiple core team member did not engage "openly" in the beta test, but behind "closed" doors they ulimately decided to delay or abondoned 2.3.

This distance between CT and yes I call it again CMSMS community is the root of the disconnect, call it alienage if you like. Indeed I am not "the community" there are other and less insulting people standing behind you.

To get back to the concerns pierrepercee is racing: "certain amount of nervousness for agencies using CMSMS". If CMSMS is your bread and butter I think you have to reach out to the CMSMS foundation to see how you can help by contributing with effort or money. For the money side I believe there is a patreon account, decide for yourself on how you can put effort in future proofing cmsms. Please also collaborate on your personal issues in the end it is not only about a roadmap or information.

https://www.patreon.com/cmsms is currently racing 27 USD per month that is not a lot.
pierrepercee
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Re: 2.3 news ?

Post by pierrepercee »

@digi3
You're on the forum every day to help users, which I don't do. I am well aware of the fantastic amount of work offered by some members of the development team. It's an unquestionable point and I don't think that's the point.
There are simple tools that allow a democratic functioning for a collaborative project, polls for example. This would be an ideal way to involve the community in the choices made.
The idea that the roadmap could be decided by a small group of people without the community of regular users having been consulted at any time, on this or that technical evolution, seems very curious to me, but that's just my opinion.
It seems to me, but maybe I'm wrong, that this kind of policy has led CMSMS in the past to an uncomfortable situation: putting all the decision levers in the hands of a single developer.
JamesT
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Re: 2.3 news ?

Post by JamesT »

My sympathies to the developers who presumably wasted many hours on 2.3 which now looks like it will not see production. Definitely a lesson to be learnt here in terms of project planning.
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