Moving site and reinstalling

[olavt]

I have moved my site to a new ISP. I imported the database to the new site, made the necessary changes in the config.php file and copied the old files. Just to test, I imported the files into an /old folder. It did not work. I reinstalled CMSMS. I did of course not want to erease the content of my database, so I chose the "do not install table" option.

During the installation I wanted to change the username and password, but found that they were not changed. I think the even if you choose not to make the tables, administrative content like username and password should bu updated.

When everything worked as it should, I moved everything to the production folder - and it did not work. I got some error messages that did not help me very much. I ended up reinstalling one more time. In addition making the updates to administrative information, I think there should be a not do complicated procedure for moving the site without having to reinstall everything.

[Ted]

There is.

1. Move database.
2. Upload site to new location
3. Modify config.php to the new paths and database settings
4. Login to admin and clear the cache

I'm sure it's been covered here many times before.

[ericob]

Hey Ted!

(Sent with the kindest of intentions.)

In your transition to "ex-wishy" (as in "wishy-washy," I presume) do take care not to overshoot and simply transform to "short-tempered," "intolerent," and "mean." 

Your reply to the original question is brushing up against those.   :(

The need to "migrate" or "move" a CMSMS site or installation, either to a new server or simply to a different directory on the existing server surely will be a pretty common task.  As such, the procedure should be included in the documentation, not reiterated endlessly ("I'm sure it's been covered here many times before.") on the Forums.

And is there a "Common Tasks" section anywhere in the docs?  I didn't find one.

The Forums should not be considered a substitute for documentation!  For one thing, forum posts are not authoritative.  For another thing, posts in general are rarely updated.  For example, it is easy to start following step-by-step instructions only to find out much later that the procedure doesn't even apply to the version you are using!  For a third thing, searching the forums for scraps of documentation is an exercise in frustration.  (More on that a little later.)

In this case, the procedure actually is in the documentation!  The topic is called "Copying to a New Server," not "moving," or "migrating."  (Search on the "wrong" term and you'll come up empty!)

So, you could have said: "How to accomplish this task is documented.  See http://wiki.cmsmadesimple.org/index.php/User_Handbook/Installation/Copying_To_a_New_Server"

The documented version is too terse, makes a number of unexpressed assumptions about the reader's presumed skill and knowledge level, and fails to include "clear the cache" in the "basic steps" version.  However, it is better than nothing.  And the "Small Howto?"  Yikes!  You should know that for many of your users, this is WAY off into dark territory!   

A Hole in the Documentation Structure/Assumptions
I think there is a "missing piece" in the the manner in which the Documentation conceptualized.  We have "I am a... Editor (or) Designer (or) Administrator, (or, elsewhere) Developer." 

What we don't have is "I am the Owner."  ("The whole thing is mine, baby!  I have to do it all.")

Part of "doing it all" is to need to be able to install the thing.  THEN, maybe move it.  And understanding all those things that have to do with the .htaccess file, or where my log files are, or what the heck SSH is, or whadaya mean, "phpinfo!?" or... you know.

Now it shouldn't necessarily be the business of the CMSMS team or community to manage all this education.  BUT!  It is/was inevitable that the original pitch (which I see is no longer headlined) of "So simple it's like taking a vacation!" was/will draw in people who are NOT "webmasters."

Enough of that for the moment.  Next...

Important, fundamental info omitted.
In the "instructions" about how to move/migrate/change/copy  your  CMSMS site/installation, critical functional information about how CMSMS actually works... is omitted.

So, I need to move my CMSMS installation to a different "location."  I want to/need to know: where is what (significant) information stored?"

I've installed a number of these things (Photo Albums, Blogging software, CMS systems.)  Guess what... there isn't a standard way that developers manage configuration settings.

Where are the paths to the relevant files stored?  Where are the admin and other user's password stored?  Anyone who has "done this before" (but with a different system!) might be excused for making a wrong assumption or two. 

What do I need to do, and in what sequence, to successfully accomplish my task?

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
OK, finally, using "search" in the forums as a substitute for a Documentation Index.

Ugh.  This sucks.  Search on

Code: Select all

moving a site

  I get back 5 pages.  The letter "a" is highlighted in Every.  Single.  Word. that contains it, on all 5 pages.  As is every instance of "moving" and every instance of "site."

Needless to say, this throws up a large number of results that are irrelevant to MY query.  "Advanced Search" is no better.  Oh but surprise!  put the query in quotation marks (somewhat standard to search for a "phrase," but nowhere documented in the Forum software) and... find about 18 posts that include that phrase!!

Meanwhile, with the regular search, found:

"Migrating from one server to another; with some cPanel 11 notes"  Nov. 2007; 297 reads, 1 reply.  http://forum.cmsmadesimple.org/index.php/topic,17056.0.html.

"unable to resolve TEMPLATE caching problems - content caching works" Jan 2006; 619 reads.  ZERO... NONE replies.  http://forum.cmsmadesimple.org/index.php/topic,2709.0.html

"Moving site to the root: trouble with permissions and content creation"  March 2007; 201 reads.  ZERO replies.  Not one.  http://forum.cmsmadesimple.org/index.php/topic,11051.0.html

There is something important going on here!

Forum entries with a HIGH number of reads but a low (or ZERO) replies indicates a possible Support or PR Black Hole.  600 reads on a two year old post indicate that people found it by searching on something.  What were they searching on?  Were they having the same or a similar problem?  If they post their problem, will they ALSO get... zero responses?

If people keep landing at such "no response" posts, you might want to consider adding *some* sort of "wrap up" reply, or a pointer to new information.

That's all for now!

eo

[olavt]

I am sure it has been covered. I did almost what Ted said, except clearing the cache. Maybe the error messages I got was because of the old cache content. Clearing the cache could probably saved me the reinstall. I am set and my site is up and running.

I do not want to criticise Ted or any other working on CMSMS. They are all doing a great job, and they are giving it all away for free. I can just say that this is very generous, and thank you very much.

But improvements can be done. A simple procedure for migrating a site, either to another server or to another folder on the same server is one feature I would welcome very much. I guess that I am not the only one who tend to do what you think should be necessary. I thought that moving the database, changing config.php and moving the files should be enough. I forgot that I should clear the cache. We do not search the forum before we start an operation.

I can add one more item to the wishlist: When installing and the tables exist in the database there should be a warning asking if you really want to delete the existing tables. The combination of default values saying that tables will be overwritten, a default prefix for tables and no warning is dangerous. I have once forgot to uncheck the "create tabes" option, with the result that I deleted all the content in the database. Luckily enough it was not a large database and I had all the information (but not a proper backup), so it did not take too much time to recreate the site. But a warning would have saved me the time. I have learned and check very carfully the settings before I reinstall. But it is unlikely that I am the only one who has done this mistake.

[calguy1000]

ericob.

We've posted numerous calls for help on the documentation team and we get little to no responses or help.  The support team is trying to do the best that they can updating the wiki, etc. but there just aren't enough hands to go around, this also has been stated 'numerous times before'.

Instead of actually helping many people seem comformtable to criticize, call the package and/or the support or documentation crappy and generally just be a pain in the ass.  Then we wonder why we get 'hard nosed' or authoritarian when it comes to off topic, rude, or poorly researched posts.

Instead of being part of the problem, we need people to be part of the solution.  If you have all of these good ideas, write up some documents and submit them to us, we can easily put them on the wiki.... or you have access to the wiki yourself..... document away.

[Pierre M.]

Hello all,

.... or you have access to the wiki yourself..... document away.

Yes. Here is a hint :
You have found something suboptimal in the documentation ? Improve it now with your forum account.

You know, this project is so cool that YOU can contribute. Have fun

Pierre M.